Channel crossing record beat.(again and again and again)

[ravenrover]

BST do you honestly believe that this obnoxious  Bill will become law before the next GE? I don't. The Govt are sowing seeds to germinate just before or after the next GE ready for the next Govt, whichever Party, to deal with

[BillyStubbsTears]

RR.

I think Braverman would be delighted if the Bill gets delayed. That's precisely what she wants. To keep angry people angry, and position herself on their side. She's a reprehensible person.

[drfchound]

If that is her plan it obviously is working already.

[normal rules]

Under section 40 of the Nationality and Borders Act 2022 (NABA), it is difficult for a person to arrive in the UK without a visa.

As there is no such thing as an ‘asylum visa’, this law will apply to almost all asylum seekers entering the UK. From 28 July 2022 onwards, anybody who enters the UK (without a visa) and claims asylum will be going against this law. This offence carries a maximum sentence of 4 years (5 years for people who re-enter the UK in breach of a deportation order).

However, it is important to remember that it would not be practical for the Government to prosecute (this means to bring criminal proceedings against) everybody who enters the UK without a visa, because this would put a lot of pressure on the courts and prison systems.

[BillyStubbsTears]

NR

Virtually no-one is getting into the UK by commercial plane or ferry without a visa, because the carriers won't let them onboard.

Pretty much by definition, genuine asylum seekers will not be in a position to get a visa issued in their home country to allow them to travel to Britain legally and then claim asylum.

There is no mechanism for applying for asylum BEFORE coming to Britain from the vast majority of countries in the world.

Genuine asylum seekers who arrived by "illegal" boat will, once this Bill is passed, be considered to have broken the law and will not be allowed to claim asylum.

Tell me. What is the mechanism whereby a genuine asylum seeker can claim asylum in the UK once this Bill goes through?

[ravenrover]

The illegality is what will be challenged in the courts which is one of the main reasons this Bill won't come into Law  in the next couple of years. The leftie lawyers will see to that which gives the current Govt, if not re elected, the opportunity to say at leadt we tried
If Labour come to power they will dispense with it.

[normal rules]

NR

Virtually no-one is getting into the UK by commercial plane or ferry without a visa, because the carriers won't let them onboard.

Pretty much by definition, genuine asylum seekers will not be in a position to get a visa issued in their home country to allow them to travel to Britain legally and then claim asylum.

There is no mechanism for applying for asylum BEFORE coming to Britain from the vast majority of countries in the world.

Genuine asylum seekers who arrived by "illegal" boat will, once this Bill is passed, be considered to have broken the law and will not be allowed to claim asylum.

Tell me. What is the mechanism whereby a genuine asylum seeker can claim asylum in the UK once this Bill goes through?

There is no mechanism currently. Let alone when/if this bill goes through.
My take on it is this.
The govt has to put their foot on the ball. Apply a very big brake. Take control. And then after that, then and only then can we accept controlled migration. Perhaps with a reception centre on the French side. We already have our Border control at the Cinque Ports and the tunnel. Maybe there is scope for this to be expanded.
If the uk govt went completely the other way and just put word out that cross channel ferries were a free for all for anyone wanting to come to the uk, then where would we be? I'm genuinely open to everyones thoughts on this. If we totally threw the rule book out and opened our doors to all, anytime, no borders, then where would this end up?

 

 

[BillyStubbsTears]

NR.

You're repeatedly posing a false dichotomy.

There's a lot of space between allow everyone in and allow no-one in. Braverman doesn't want that debate and you are falling right into her trap.

[normal rules]

NR.

You're repeatedly posing a false dichotomy.

There's a lot of space between allow everyone in and allow no-one in. Braverman doesn't want that debate and you are falling right into her trap.

I’m all ears. You propose no solution. ?

[tyke1962]

NR.

You're repeatedly posing a false dichotomy.

There's a lot of space between allow everyone in and allow no-one in. Braverman doesn't want that debate and you are falling right into her trap.

I’m all ears. You propose no solution. ?

It generally works along the lines of anybody proposing tougher measures is racist and the debate shut down .

[Bentley Bullet]

Truth is if Labour had proposed similar measures to Braverman it would have been far more accepted by Labour voters, and no doubt Billy & co would have defended it.

It's all entirely political.

[BillyStubbsTears]

NR.

You're repeatedly posing a false dichotomy.

There's a lot of space between allow everyone in and allow no-one in. Braverman doesn't want that debate and you are falling right into her trap.

I’m all ears. You propose no solution. ?

You've clearly not been reading what I've written then because I've said this several times.

You start by having an asylum processing system that is fit for purpose. The HO has been dysfunctional for years because this Govt doesn't want a solution. It wants angry people to keep on feeling angry.

There is currently a backlog of over 100,000 asylum claims. Last year, 40,000 people arrived on boats and claimed asylum. 314 cases were processed.

THAT is the core of the problem. If we had a system that worked to process these cases, we could then deport the bogus claimants while still upholding our legal and moral obligations to genuine claimants.

We could also offer a chance for asylum seeker to apply before they arrive. But this Govt has chosen not to offer that other than from a few select countries.

Do that effectively and the attraction of boat passage vanishes.

[ravenrover]

Truth is if Labour had proposed similar measures to Braverman it would have been far more accepted by Labour voters, and no doubt Billy & co would have defended it.

It's all entirely political.

It is not acceptable as a proposal, by any Party

[BillyStubbsTears]

You're wasting your time RR.

BB is obsessed with the idea that everyone is as incapable of dealing with arguments on their merits as he is.

[Bentley Bullet]

Na BST, I'm obsessed with the truth, that's all.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Strange that all you ever do is refuse to engage in discussion and just try to wind people up then BB.

I'm sure you get something out of it, but I don't envy you.

[DonnyOsmond]

Truth is if Labour had proposed similar measures to Braverman it would have been far more accepted by Labour voters, and no doubt Billy & co would have defended it.

It's all entirely political.

What are you on about?

I would hope any other party would think logically and decide the first way to solve boat issue is to address the issue where you can only claim asylum in the UK by getting to the UK.

[Bentley Bullet]

Strange that all you ever do is refuse to engage in discussion and just try to wind people up then BB.

I'm sure you get something out of it, but I don't envy you.

BST. I seem to only wind those people up whose cap fits. It is they who chose to be wound up. It is they who admit to their culpability simply by responding to it objectionably. They even sometimes use foul language and make false accusations, for which they refuse to apologise.

By the way, if I had an answer to the problem of immigration without being called a racist, I would tell you it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB.

You're normally water off a duck's back to me. But I'll admit, you got under my skin when I was explaining about the mental health issue my son has, and you continued to niggle and wind up.

Did I say "got under my skin?" My apologies. What I meant was, you finally, after all these years, made me realise what a deeply nasty, twisted individual you are. I hope you get something out of acting like that but I cannot for the life of me figure what that might be.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST, you're entitled to your opinion, and as head of this forum, you are allowed to say it in any way you like and with no consequence.

Of course, after all these years I don't expect you to be right all of a sudden. If the truth were known, and you were willing to accept it for once, you'd discover that I'm a really nice, kind, generous, compassionate and loyal bloke. I do have faults, like everyone else, of course. One of the major ones is an intolerance to self-righteous bullshitters who spend their time preaching God-like perfection on fourth-division off-topic football forums.

[BillyStubbsTears]

You just can't stop it can you?

[normal rules]

NR.

You're repeatedly posing a false dichotomy.

There's a lot of space between allow everyone in and allow no-one in. Braverman doesn't want that debate and you are falling right into her trap.

I’m all ears. You propose no solution. ?

You've clearly not been reading what I've written then because I've said this several times.

You start by having an asylum processing system that is fit for purpose. The HO has been dysfunctional for years because this Govt doesn't want a solution. It wants angry people to keep on feeling angry.

There is currently a backlog of over 100,000 asylum claims. Last year, 40,000 people arrived on boats and claimed asylum. 314 cases were processed.

THAT is the core of the problem. If we had a system that worked to process these cases, we could then deport the bogus claimants while still upholding our legal and moral obligations to genuine claimants.

We could also offer a chance for asylum seeker to apply before they arrive. But this Govt has chosen not to offer that other than from a few select countries.

Do that effectively and the attraction of boat passage vanishes.
[/quot

Isn’t it a lot more complex than that? Easy to blame the govt. For every asylum claim that the HO rejects. There will be a counter claim by some human rights lawyer getting paid for by us as they get free and independent legal advice . And so it goes on. The legal aid bill for asylum counter claims must run into tens of millions alone .

[ravenrover]

So the first immigrant hss landed in Rwanda, hope they keep her

[Sprotyrover]

By the way! Just be careful as to which charity you donate money to, you may well be funding some of the flotilla of 'Rescue' ships currently saving illegal immigrants from Rubber dinghies, they then don't take em back from whence they came to take them to to a European Port having already coached them in how to claim refugee status, or it could go to the Charities operating in North France coaching encouraging and assisting would be asylum seekers.
You might be happy with that, I prefer y donations to go to needy Persons in the U.K. And there are plenty in need!

[wilts rover]

Which charities do you donate to Sproty? So we can all help like.

[SydneyRover]

NR.

You're repeatedly posing a false dichotomy.

There's a lot of space between allow everyone in and allow no-one in. Braverman doesn't want that debate and you are falling right into her trap.

I’m all ears. You propose no solution. ?

You've clearly not been reading what I've written then because I've said this several times.

You start by having an asylum processing system that is fit for purpose. The HO has been dysfunctional for years because this Govt doesn't want a solution. It wants angry people to keep on feeling angry.

There is currently a backlog of over 100,000 asylum claims. Last year, 40,000 people arrived on boats and claimed asylum. 314 cases were processed.

THAT is the core of the problem. If we had a system that worked to process these cases, we could then deport the bogus claimants while still upholding our legal and moral obligations to genuine claimants.

We could also offer a chance for asylum seeker to apply before they arrive. But this Govt has chosen not to offer that other than from a few select countries.

Do that effectively and the attraction of boat passage vanishes.
[/quot

Isn’t it a lot more complex than that? Easy to blame the govt. For every asylum claim that the HO rejects. There will be a counter claim by some human rights lawyer getting paid for by us as they get free and independent legal advice . And so it goes on. The legal aid bill for asylum counter claims must run into tens of millions alone .

NR ''Because if Labour came out with a policy of shipping these people straight back to say Albania within weeks of them arriving illegally then they would get my vote''

Instead of sidling up to the former home secretary and claiming 'inside knowledge' shouldn't you be writing to the current government asking for a humane solution?

Labour are not in power ffs

[BillyStubbsTears]

I see Sunak has been reproached by the UK Statistics Authority for lying in Parliament last week. He claimed that the Tories had the backlog in asylum claims cases down to lower that it was under the last Labour Government.

The fact is they have gone up since 2010 by 1400%.

I expect Sunak will correct the record in Parliament next week.

Aye, well. Maybe not, eh?

[Sprotyrover]

Which charities do you donate to Sproty? So we can all help like.

That’s very good of you Wilts, Zarach is a charity in Leeds that Donates Bed bundles to impoverished kids so they can sleep in a real bed rather than a Sack on the kitchen Floor, (it’s not just the Poem called Timothy Winters it’s real)Parkinson’s Uk and Cancer research Uk.

[wilts rover]

Which charities do you donate to Sproty? So we can all help like.

That’s very good of you Wilts, Zarach is a charity in Leeds that Donates Bed bundles to impoverished kids so they can sleep in a real bed rather than a Sack on the kitchen Floor, (it’s not just the Poem called Timothy Winters it’s real)Parkinson’s Uk and Cancer research Uk.

Thanks Sproty. Never heard of Zarach before but that's real good work they do there. The next charity event I do I will donate to them.

I always think it's best & more productive to promote things you like rather than moan about stuff you dont.

[SydneyRover]

''Britain, be warned: with ‘stop the boats’ policies you brutalise migrants – and damage yourselves''

''This hostile approach to asylum helped the Australian right win elections, but it created divisions that still scar us as a nation''

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/27/britain-be-warned-with-stop-the-boats-policies-you-brutalise-migrants-and-damage-yourselves

This could be what you're in for.