Ukraine

[Bristol Red Rover]

BRR

It's really simple.

You vehemently said you'd seen reports that X was happening.

I asked you where those reports were.

You went off like a Claymore on a uncoordinated rant about anything but reports.

I asked you where the reports were.

You tell me I'm not keeping up.

I knew there was a reason why I took a decision 35 years back to not discuss topics with the Far Left/Right.

BST - use google.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BRR

I'm interested in the reports that YOU have seen.

You HAVE seen reports I take it? So you know where they are. Why not share them?

[wilts rover]

Did you not read the posts in that link - that detail the reduction in Russian shelling!!!

As I said above, he also claims there has been no change in the front line. He's wrong.

Can't you see how much effort is put into pro western propaganda? The US is fighting this proxy war with the aim of weakening Russia. This is effectivey a war between Russia and the US, supported by NATO countries. Ukraine people are the cannon fodder. It's sick.

This is a war against an imperialist fascist dictator who has invaded a neighbouring smaller country intent on wiping it off the map.

Full stop.

Is it your need to wave the flag, get into an us v them, solace in the security your masters are giving you? Coz you know that's all BS. Or just not being capable of seeing the well evidenced bigger picture and history? And that is surprising as it's clear as day... though not in what you are choosing to read.

It was orchestrated by both sides in different ways. The US has been aiming for this scenario for decades. Russia has been waiting for the chance to take Ukraine, and was handed the opportunity.

The US/NATO thought, and still thinks, it would be able to weaken Russia, possibly to the point of collapse, or maybe instill one if it's usual catastrophic regime changes - which it did do in Ukraine. Russia thought otherwise, and took up the challange.

The support for this from the US, and ther NATO countries, public is steadily decreasing. Russia may weaken, or maybe will switch to a more full on war footing, who knows. From the evidence on the ground, ie the Russian advances, it's fairly clear Putin is in control. Zelensky is playing his role well, he is an actor, and squeezing all possible out of what is available to him. How long can he keep doing this, how long will the Western Ukraines support him? A trip to the east to be left unsupported by weapons, and to be maimed or killed isn't looking good on the scales of choices. No one wants to be cannon fodder for the elite thugs in control.

Meanwhile, both sides are responsible for the death of Ukrainians - something neither sides are bothered about as is seen in their histories.

Yet you persist in dealing out the #billyblinkers line.

I think for myself - enough of your Russian propoganda b*****ks

[Bristol Red Rover]

BRR

I'm interested in the reports that YOU have seen.

You HAVE seen reports I take it? So you know where they are. Why not share them?

You're not interested in the reports I saw, jeeez give yourself a break.

I've seen loads of reports, nothing proven. Just reports. Even the report that Russia has aquired an intact HIMAR to gp with the French whatsits it also "aquired", all now in Russia being examined. That goes with the story of Ukraine officers/gangsters making a deal with the Russians, ie selling it to them, and then retreating "leaving it behind". Probs not true, but similar is highly likely to have happened here and there.

Meanwhile, no HIMARS destroyed you think? Or you don't know?

[Bristol Red Rover]

I think for myself - enough of your Russian propoganda b*****ks

[BillyStubbsTears]

BRR

I'm interested in the reports that YOU have seen.

You HAVE seen reports I take it? So you know where they are. Why not share them?

You're not interested in the reports I saw, jeeez give yourself a break.

I've seen loads of reports, nothing proven. Just reports. Even the report that Russia has aquired an intact HIMAR to gp with the French whatsits it also "aquired", all now in Russia being examined. That goes with the story of Ukraine officers/gangsters making a deal with the Russians, ie selling it to them, and then retreating "leaving it behind". Probs not true, but similar is highly likely to have happened here and there.

Meanwhile, no HIMARS destroyed you think? Or you don't know?

Just post a link to the reports you've seen. Why on earth would you not do that?

See, the only reports I have seen of HIMARS being destroyed come directly from the Russian MoD who boast of "Precision missile strikes" doing the job. But we've heard of these claims of "precision missile strikes" surgically taking ut weapons stores before haven't we? When in fact they were lobbing  anti-tank missiles with a "we might hit the right suburb" precision, and dstroying apartment blocks and supermarkets.

So we take those claims with a pinch of salt don't we?

So, you see, I need a bit of help here because I've looked myself and I can't find anything but these Russian MoD claims.

I assume you have something more trustworthy? So why not post it?

[Bristol Red Rover]

BRR

I'm interested in the reports that YOU have seen.

You HAVE seen reports I take it? So you know where they are. Why not share them?

You're not interested in the reports I saw, jeeez give yourself a break.

I've seen loads of reports, nothing proven. Just reports. Even the report that Russia has aquired an intact HIMAR to gp with the French whatsits it also "aquired", all now in Russia being examined. That goes with the story of Ukraine officers/gangsters making a deal with the Russians, ie selling it to them, and then retreating "leaving it behind". Probs not true, but similar is highly likely to have happened here and there.

Meanwhile, no HIMARS destroyed you think? Or you don't know?

Just post a link to the reports you've seen. Why on earth would you not do that?

See, the only reports I have seen of HIMARS being destroyed come directly from the Russian MoD who boast of "Precision missile strikes" doing the job. But we've heard of these claims of "precision missile strikes" surgically taking ut weapons stores before haven't we? When in fact they were lobbing  anti-tank missiles with a "we might hit the right suburb" precision, and dstroying apartment blocks and supermarkets.

So we take those claims with a pinch of salt don't we?

So, you see, I need a bit of help here because I've looked myself and I can't find anything but these Russian MoD claims.

I assume you have something more trustworthy? So why not post it?

Just google, that's what I did. Loads of links. If all you found are what you say then your googling needs some work, or maybe you're blissfully caught behind a NATO censorship fiewall like most others seem to be. Most links acknowledging that it's not known. I just said reports, how difficult is that to grasp?

Of course Russia has precision weapons for long distance strikes. It won't use the best for everything. HIMARS, they will get the best Russia can offer.

Your comments about supermarkets etc are daft, you know you're agan using rhetoric and BS. Yes there was damage. Was it random like you say - give it a rest General MacArthur.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BRR

There you go again with this weird behaviour! Spending dozens of key clicks telling me what I ought to be able to find, when ctrl-c and ctrl-z could copy and paste the links that you've found. How very odd that you won't do it.

Almost as if...

[Bristol Red Rover]

BRR

There you go again with this weird behaviour! Spending dozens of key clicks telling me what I ought to be able to find, when ctrl-c and ctrl-z could copy and paste the links that you've found. How very odd that you won't do it.

Almost as if...

I didn't save the links. What's with your inability to google?

[BillyStubbsTears]

I've Googled plenty. I've not seen a single "report" that isn't based on a statement from the Russian MoD.

So I've no option but to conclude that you are basing your posts on reports from the Russian MoD. Which would fit a pattern. You read reports by the Russian MoD and repeat them unfiltered. Frequently.

[Axholme Lion]

Did you not read the posts in that link - that detail the reduction in Russian shelling!!!

As I said above, he also claims there has been no change in the front line. He's wrong.

Can't you see how much effort is put into pro western propaganda? The US is fighting this proxy war with the aim of weakening Russia. This is effectivey a war between Russia and the US, supported by NATO countries. Ukraine people are the cannon fodder. It's sick.

This is a war against an imperialist fascist dictator who has invaded a neighbouring smaller country intent on wiping it off the map.

Full stop.

Is it your need to wave the flag, get into an us v them, solace in the security your masters are giving you? Coz you know that's all BS. Or just not being capable of seeing the well evidenced bigger picture and history? And that is surprising as it's clear as day... though not in what you are choosing to read.

It was orchestrated by both sides in different ways. The US has been aiming for this scenario for decades. Russia has been waiting for the chance to take Ukraine, and was handed the opportunity.

The US/NATO thought, and still thinks, it would be able to weaken Russia, possibly to the point of collapse, or maybe instill one if it's usual catastrophic regime changes - which it did do in Ukraine. Russia thought otherwise, and took up the challange.

The support for this from the US, and ther NATO countries, public is steadily decreasing. Russia may weaken, or maybe will switch to a more full on war footing, who knows. From the evidence on the ground, ie the Russian advances, it's fairly clear Putin is in control. Zelensky is playing his role well, he is an actor, and squeezing all possible out of what is available to him. How long can he keep doing this, how long will the Western Ukraines support him? A trip to the east to be left unsupported by weapons, and to be maimed or killed isn't looking good on the scales of choices. No one wants to be cannon fodder for the elite thugs in control.

Meanwhile, both sides are responsible for the death of Ukrainians - something neither sides are bothered about as is seen in their histories.

Yet you persist in dealing out the #billyblinkers line.

Well said, but you're wasting your breath on here. In the main most seem happy to go along with the line they are being fed by the Western Governments and MSM who never tell lies.

[glosterred]

Did you not read the posts in that link - that detail the reduction in Russian shelling!!!

As I said above, he also claims there has been no change in the front line. He's wrong.

Can't you see how much effort is put into pro western propaganda? The US is fighting this proxy war with the aim of weakening Russia. This is effectivey a war between Russia and the US, supported by NATO countries. Ukraine people are the cannon fodder. It's sick.

This is a war against an imperialist fascist dictator who has invaded a neighbouring smaller country intent on wiping it off the map.

Full stop.

Is it your need to wave the flag, get into an us v them, solace in the security your masters are giving you? Coz you know that's all BS. Or just not being capable of seeing the well evidenced bigger picture and history? And that is surprising as it's clear as day... though not in what you are choosing to read.

It was orchestrated by both sides in different ways. The US has been aiming for this scenario for decades. Russia has been waiting for the chance to take Ukraine, and was handed the opportunity.

The US/NATO thought, and still thinks, it would be able to weaken Russia, possibly to the point of collapse, or maybe instill one if it's usual catastrophic regime changes - which it did do in Ukraine. Russia thought otherwise, and took up the challange.

The support for this from the US, and ther NATO countries, public is steadily decreasing. Russia may weaken, or maybe will switch to a more full on war footing, who knows. From the evidence on the ground, ie the Russian advances, it's fairly clear Putin is in control. Zelensky is playing his role well, he is an actor, and squeezing all possible out of what is available to him. How long can he keep doing this, how long will the Western Ukraines support him? A trip to the east to be left unsupported by weapons, and to be maimed or killed isn't looking good on the scales of choices. No one wants to be cannon fodder for the elite thugs in control.

Meanwhile, both sides are responsible for the death of Ukrainians - something neither sides are bothered about as is seen in their histories.

Yet you persist in dealing out the #billyblinkers line.

Well said, but you're wasting your breath on here. In the main most seem happy to go along with the line they are being fed by the Western Governments and MSM who never tell lies.

If you and BRR are wasting your breath on here, you are both quite entitled to do one and leave us to our ignorant bliss. And I’m sure I’m not the only one, me hoping you do!

[Axholme Lion]

Did you not read the posts in that link - that detail the reduction in Russian shelling!!!

As I said above, he also claims there has been no change in the front line. He's wrong.

Can't you see how much effort is put into pro western propaganda? The US is fighting this proxy war with the aim of weakening Russia. This is effectivey a war between Russia and the US, supported by NATO countries. Ukraine people are the cannon fodder. It's sick.

This is a war against an imperialist fascist dictator who has invaded a neighbouring smaller country intent on wiping it off the map.

Full stop.

Is it your need to wave the flag, get into an us v them, solace in the security your masters are giving you? Coz you know that's all BS. Or just not being capable of seeing the well evidenced bigger picture and history? And that is surprising as it's clear as day... though not in what you are choosing to read.

It was orchestrated by both sides in different ways. The US has been aiming for this scenario for decades. Russia has been waiting for the chance to take Ukraine, and was handed the opportunity.

The US/NATO thought, and still thinks, it would be able to weaken Russia, possibly to the point of collapse, or maybe instill one if it's usual catastrophic regime changes - which it did do in Ukraine. Russia thought otherwise, and took up the challange.

The support for this from the US, and ther NATO countries, public is steadily decreasing. Russia may weaken, or maybe will switch to a more full on war footing, who knows. From the evidence on the ground, ie the Russian advances, it's fairly clear Putin is in control. Zelensky is playing his role well, he is an actor, and squeezing all possible out of what is available to him. How long can he keep doing this, how long will the Western Ukraines support him? A trip to the east to be left unsupported by weapons, and to be maimed or killed isn't looking good on the scales of choices. No one wants to be cannon fodder for the elite thugs in control.

Meanwhile, both sides are responsible for the death of Ukrainians - something neither sides are bothered about as is seen in their histories.

Yet you persist in dealing out the #billyblinkers line.

Well said, but you're wasting your breath on here. In the main most seem happy to go along with the line they are being fed by the Western Governments and MSM who never tell lies.

If you and BRR are wasting your breath on here, you are both quite entitled to do one and leave us to our ignorant bliss. And I’m sure I’m not the only one, me hoping you do!

Some one needs to speak the truth that people choose not to see. Maybe if one person can see through the lies it will be worth it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Christ alive. AL as the Saviour of Truth.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62231936

It really is laughable.

Nope, we've changed our minds, We're going to nick more of your country so you won't threaten our territory!!!


Err, you've got to have borders with other countries!!

[wilts rover]

The truth

Russia confirms today that its objectives have officiallyy changed from 'a special operation' in Dontesk and Luhansk to full annexation of both Kherson and Zaporizhia. With a further possibility 'to expand the invasion beyond those areas'.

https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1549729999900622848

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yeah but. They are only doing that so they can sort out the Ukrainian long range missile systems.

That'll be the ones that BRR's Kremlin mates tell us they can already sort out with precision strikes will it? Or is it the ones they tell BRR aren't being sent?

[Bristol Red Rover]

Is this a proxy war by the US/NATO (or NATO countries if you want to be pedantic) or not?

[Bristol Red Rover]

I've Googled plenty. I've not seen a single "report" that isn't based on a statement from the Russian MoD.

So I've no option but to conclude that you are basing your posts on reports from the Russian MoD. Which would fit a pattern. You read reports by the Russian MoD and repeat them unfiltered. Frequently.

Yes, it does appear that those reports essentially go back to Russian MoD sources, I never suggested otherwise. Likewise the denials go back to Ukraine and US sources.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Right. Only took two days to get there.

Who mentioned denials? When you're addressing claims from a source that has demonstrably lied over and over again, there's no onus on anyone to deny it. Better to just work in the assumption it's another lie, unless there's evidence to the contrary.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Right. Only took two days to get there.

Who mentioned denials? When you're addressing claims from a source that has demonstrably lied over and over again, there's no onus on anyone to deny it. Better to just work in the assumption it's another lie, unless there's evidence to the contrary.

Ha, I said google, you did, and guess what, you found exactly what I said, reports. Well done

Ukraine could get a lot of kudos, and future supplies, by giving evidence o their continued functioning. They haven't. But yeah, lets move on...

Proxy war or not? US and gang stirred this up over decades or just fell upon some random bad guy agression?

[BillyStubbsTears]

And with that, I really AM cutting these discussions. Utterly pointless.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Ooooh! When the going gets tough.... bye kidda!

[SydneyRover]

Is putin slowly coming around to negotiation??? still a bit early to call but if he signs off on that grain deal and that he has just cracked opened the gas valve a tad could show that russia and himself are under strain from the war and sanctions .......

[RobTheRover]

Is putin slowly coming around to negotiation??? still a bit early to call but if he signs off on that grain deal and that he has just cracked opened the gas valve a tad could show that russia and himself are under strain from the war and sanctions .......

I wouldn't get too excited about Nordstream. It's only 40% operational, the turbine that's been in Canada isn't back in play yet, and there are a lot more planned maintenance issues in the coming months.

Meanwhile, Gazprom's rebranding in the UK is imminent. Been told could well be announced next week.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Is putin slowly coming around to negotiation??? still a bit early to call but if he signs off on that grain deal and that he has just cracked opened the gas valve a tad could show that russia and himself are under strain from the war and sanctions .......

Is it Russia or is it other parties that are more coming around to negatiation?

If Russia is under strain form the war, and west media is pushing that for obvious reasons, then where exactly is that strain and how intense, acute, is it? Would releasing some of the grain be that beneficial to them over and above what it would be for Ukraine, and more specifically the west in general? I suspect they'd have to have some sizable payback in any negotiation - what would that be? Will we ever be told?

If Russia isn't under that much strain, then the payback to them would be even larger.

From what I'm seeing, the main benefit to Russia is the lifting of sanctions by those countries that have chosen to have them. I imagine that will cost the west, and us ordinary folk. More price rises.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Indeed take this with a pinch of salt, though if true its significant. From our friends, the Russian MoD:
▫️"The enemy is suffering considerable losses of armament delivered by Western countries. From July 5 to 20, 4 launching ramps and 1 reloading vehicle for the U.S.-manufactured HIMARS MRLS delivered to Ukraine were eliminated by high-precision ground- and air-based armament. Among them, 2 launching ramps were destroyed near Malotaranovka, 1 HIMARS and 1 reloading vehicle was destroyed near Krasnoarmeysk, as well as 4th launching ramp at the eastern suburb of Konstantinovka (Donetsk People's Republic)"

[wilts rover]

Why Russia's economy is crumbling.

Far from being ineffective or disappointing, as many have argued, international sanctions and voluntary business retreats have exerted a devastating effect over Russia’s economy. The deteriorating economy has served as a powerful if underappreciated complement to the deteriorating political landscape facing Putin.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/22/russia-economy-sanctions-myths-ruble-business/

[wilts rover]

Ukraine’s military destroys Russian ammunition depot in southern Ukraine.

Operational Command “South” said it destroyed a Russian multiple rocket launcher, three armored personnel carriers, two heavy artillery, and six military vehicles. They also killed 93 Russian troops.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1550627320188248066

This takes the Ukraine Armed Forces estimates of Russian losses to date to include:

39,240 troops
1.708 tanks
2.802 supply vehicles
3,929 APV's
864 artillery systems
253 MLR's

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1550735629704740864

[Bristol Red Rover]

Ukraine’s military destroys Russian ammunition depot in southern Ukraine.

Operational Command “South” said it destroyed a Russian multiple rocket launcher, three armored personnel carriers, two heavy artillery, and six military vehicles. They also killed 93 Russian troops.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1550627320188248066

This takes the Ukraine Armed Forces estimates of Russian losses to date to include:

39,240 troops
1.708 tanks
2.802 supply vehicles
3,929 APV's
864 artillery systems
253 MLR's

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1550735629704740864

I think the "losses" on both sides figures for personel includes injured.

Notable that Ukraine tends to give generalised claims of numbers whereas Russia specifies the region and the TBG effected.

How either can claim to know of numbers of personel effected except in a few specific incidences is beyond me.

Whilst the Donbas situation slowly heads one direction, the sitiation in the south west is interesting with Ukraine talking up it's imminent assault there, and at the same time Russia appears to be gathering forces to attack towards Mykoaiv - something of a showdown.