Ukraine

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1686014164056043520?s=20

Just normalised now. Putin fires ballistic missiles at university buildings and apartment blocks hundreds of km from the front line and we barely even raise an eyebrow.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Assuming it's not air defense own goals, and assuming the buildings weren't part of Uke military, then that's an evil thing. As is the current Uke drone targeting of Russian civilian areas in Moscow and elsewhere.

Simply a choice of feeding the fire of evil, causing many thousands more deaths and trauma, or finding a peaceful resolution. The longer this goes on, the more harm is done, the more Ukraine is wrecked, the more it will have to relinquish in peace negotiations.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Interesting vid I saw of a Ukraine commander in Avdivka complaining that the fresh troops sent to him weren't up to it. The only reason they arrived was because they refused to pay their superiors part of their salary.

Full translated transcript:

But the appeal of the soldiers of the 110th Specialized Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has arrived!
 “We are fighters of the 110th separate mechanized brigade. We appeal to the command of the armed forces of Ukraine, to the leadership of the Ukrainian state, to law enforcement agencies so that they solve the problem that happened to us.
I am the squad leader. My squad suffered heavy casualties, wounded and killed. I myself was seriously injured by artillery and was in the hospital for several months.
Now, to replace my department, they sent such people as you see. Meet: these are the cooks from the logistics company, uh "Radar" - some kind of f king radar there, the signalman was here ... where are you? And here!
They got here because they did not want to share their salary with the commanders - that's how they ended up in my department.
And that's not all! The rest of my squad are mobilized a week ago! Only a week has passed ... two days ago they got here ... What did you teach them? Nothing?! - Nothing! They just took it! Where, Nikolaev, Odessa? - Nikolaev and Odessa.
How to fight this? In two days we will have to storm the Russian positions. Unfired, uncoordinated in the team ... I'm not even talking about equipment! Look! - The guy is an attack aircraft without armor!
We are not against our duty to Ukraine, we are not against defending the state, we are not against killing Russians!!! But how can we do this with such a composition ?!
And my department is not the only one like that!! Each squad in the 110th brigade is from this composition: rear and mobs!!!
They throw us for meat! Meat guys...
 I already reported to Lieutenant Colonel Tarasenko - the battalion commander about this. Other staff rats from the brigade... Nothing changes, they don't care!
 Previously, I have already recorded similar appeals, they led to positive changes. I hope that this appeal will lead to positive changes. And we will be trained, armed, have good equipment. And we will kill the Russians and liberate Ukraine!"

 "U_G_M"

https://t.me/swodki/289039

[Not Now Kato]

Meanwhile....
 
https://metro.co.uk/2023/08/04/russia-ukraine-drone-russian-navy-ship-19266301/?ito=pull-notification&ci=3KN74GKKpV&xi=2ac9f9b0-c48c-43c4-a249-80b608958060&ai=19266301
 
I suspect Putin is not a happy chappy right now.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Ukraine reportedly using drones to drop looped recordings of footsteps, gun firing, Ukraine voices. Been dropping them behind Russians n the frontline to make them feel surrounded. Clever.

Although it reminds me of some comedy sketch - Python? Milligan?

[Bristol Red Rover]

Meanwhile....
 
https://metro.co.uk/2023/08/04/russia-ukraine-drone-russian-navy-ship-19266301/?ito=pull-notification&ci=3KN74GKKpV&xi=2ac9f9b0-c48c-43c4-a249-80b608958060&ai=19266301
 
I suspect Putin is not a happy chappy right now.

Probably not in that instance. Tis a bit weird they haven't solved the navy drone problem, there's a very easy fix - park up the ships behind a few layers of netting from Wickes.

[BessieBlue]

Navalny is a surefire man of principle.

His treatment tells you all you need to know about the rotten and corrupt core of the kremlin regime.

[Dutch Uncle]

Meanwhile....
 
https://metro.co.uk/2023/08/04/russia-ukraine-drone-russian-navy-ship-19266301/?ito=pull-notification&ci=3KN74GKKpV&xi=2ac9f9b0-c48c-43c4-a249-80b608958060&ai=19266301
 
I suspect Putin is not a happy chappy right now.

Probably not in that instance. Tis a bit weird they haven't solved the navy drone problem, there's a very easy fix - park up the ships behind a few layers of netting from Wickes.

If the ships all have to be parked is that not mission accomplished for the Ukrainian drones?

[BillyStubbsTears]

When the history of the 21st century is written, if Russia has come back from the bestial depravity it has currently sunk into, Navalny will be an example of the very best that Russia produced.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Meanwhile, it looks like Ukraine have hit the Kerch Bridge again.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Navalny is a surefire man of principle.

His treatment tells you all you need to know about the rotten and corrupt core of the kremlin regime.

Like I said, a parallel to the Corbyn case.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Meanwhile....
 
https://metro.co.uk/2023/08/04/russia-ukraine-drone-russian-navy-ship-19266301/?ito=pull-notification&ci=3KN74GKKpV&xi=2ac9f9b0-c48c-43c4-a249-80b608958060&ai=19266301
 
I suspect Putin is not a happy chappy right now.

Probably not in that instance. Tis a bit weird they haven't solved the navy drone problem, there's a very easy fix - park up the ships behind a few layers of netting from Wickes.

If the ships all have to be parked is that not mission accomplished for the Ukrainian drones?

Temporarily it would be partially an aim achieved. Detrustruction is what is wanted tho, anything less doesn't achieve the level of drama needed to influence either Ukraine or Russian morale. Today's damage is likewise mission not accomplished.

[BessieBlue]

Navalny is a surefire man of principle.

His treatment tells you all you need to know about the rotten and corrupt core of the kremlin regime.

Like I said, a parallel to the Corbyn case.

I didn't realise Corbyn has been locked up for the rest of his life - my apologies.

[Bristol Red Rover]

When the history of the 21st century is written, if Russia has come back from the bestial depravity it has currently sunk into, Navalny will be an example of the very best that Russia produced.

I guess you'd say the same re the bestial depravity of the Tories and Corbyn being the best Britain produced? No? BST, a man of duplicitous complexities and syndromes.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Navalny is a surefire man of principle.

His treatment tells you all you need to know about the rotten and corrupt core of the kremlin regime.

Like I said, a parallel to the Corbyn case.

I didn't realise Corbyn has been locked up for the rest of his life - my apologies.

BRR has come out with some breathtakingly amoral bothsides stuff this past 18 months, but this tops the lot. That's where a lifetime of so-far-left-it's-far-right political beliefs leaves you. Drawing parallels between the fates of Navalny and Corbyn.

If it wasn't so serious, it would be hilarious. 

[Bristol Red Rover]

Navalny is a surefire man of principle.

His treatment tells you all you need to know about the rotten and corrupt core of the kremlin regime.

Like I said, a parallel to the Corbyn case.

I didn't realise Corbyn has been locked up for the rest of his life - my apologies.

Sorry, was in another thread. Same motivation, same effect, but a different means. It doesn't make it better just because prison wasn't used. If you think that,  you're falling for the power held over you.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Navalny is a surefire man of principle.

His treatment tells you all you need to know about the rotten and corrupt core of the kremlin regime.

Like I said, a parallel to the Corbyn case.

I didn't realise Corbyn has been locked up for the rest of his life - my apologies.

BRR has come out with some breathtakingly amoral bothsides stuff this past 18 months, but this tops the lot. That's where a lifetime of so-far-left-it's-far-right political beliefs leaves you. Drawing parallels between the fates of Navalny and Corbyn.

If it wasn't so serious, it would be hilarious. 

Oh, back replying to me? Thing is, as usual, you miss the point. Same effect, different means. I thought you were a little bit more sussed, just a bit. Mr Establishment as you are tho,  I should have guessed your angle of comment.

[BessieBlue]

Navalny is a surefire man of principle.

His treatment tells you all you need to know about the rotten and corrupt core of the kremlin regime.

Like I said, a parallel to the Corbyn case.

I didn't realise Corbyn has been locked up for the rest of his life - my apologies.

Sorry, was in another thread. Same motivation, same effect, but a different means. It doesn't make it better just because prison wasn't used. If you think that,  you're falling for the power held over you.

So where does the state sponsored use of nerve agent fit into the Corbyn story.

I see no parallels here at all.

Navalny is a leader of people - greatly feared by the kremlin regime.

Corbyn was never a leader - an activist for sure and a man of principle certainly - but there was never any risk of him being banged up for his beliefs - or poisoned by the state.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Navalny is a surefire man of principle.

His treatment tells you all you need to know about the rotten and corrupt core of the kremlin regime.

Like I said, a parallel to the Corbyn case.

I didn't realise Corbyn has been locked up for the rest of his life - my apologies.

Sorry, was in another thread. Same motivation, same effect, but a different means. It doesn't make it better just because prison wasn't used. If you think that,  you're falling for the power held over you.

So where does the state sponsored use of nerve agent fit into the Corbyn story.

I see no parallels here at all.

Navalny is a leader of people - greatly feared by the kremlin regime.

Corbyn was never a leader - an activist for sure and a man of principle certainly - but there was never any risk of him being banged up for his beliefs - or poisoned by the state.

Corbyn was leader of a Labour Party who very nearly took power of this country. Very weird you say he wasn't a leader.

Corbyn was sabotaged by the establishment, destroyed by them, as they must keep their power. Corbyn threatened that. There is the parallel. Nerve poison,  prison etc are just the means. The effect, and the motive is the same.

Putin is the face of who leads Russia,  we know that. Who leads the UK? Altogether probably a more sophisticated,  and nefarious bunch of evil psychopaths.

[BessieBlue]

I'm not denying he was leader of the Labour Party - just that he was an ineffective leader - he didn't know how to lead - it wasn't his instinct and therein lay his ultimate downfall.

But this thread is about Ukraine and my comments were about the wretched Navalny - there are no parallels with Corbyn.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Yes this thread is about Ukraine. Within that it's about perspectives on Ukraine, on Russia,  on their leadership, on their motives, on their influences, on the influences on the war in general. Without all that we are left with fixated narratives, like with that of our government,  of the BBC,  etc. That way we get half a story, not even that, and one that is in the interests of certain parties.

So when the treatment of an individual is demonised as with Navalny it is wise to see how the same happens here in the UK. As I said,  not the prison or whatever, but the undemocratic exclusion. That is exactly what happened with Corbyn. It happens in other ways,  to other individuals, to groups. It is always, as is the case in this Russian incident, in support of the establishment. It is ALWAYS the case, throughout history. Making out the Russian situation to be horrific whilst thinking that isn't the case here in our own backyard, and in backyards everywhere, is naîve. The establishment is your enemy whether its in Russia or the UK.

[bpoolrover]

Navalny is a surefire man of principle.

His treatment tells you all you need to know about the rotten and corrupt core of the kremlin regime.

Like I said, a parallel to the Corbyn case.

I didn't realise Corbyn has been locked up for the rest of his life - my apologies.

Sorry, was in another thread. Same motivation, same effect, but a different means. It doesn't make it better just because prison wasn't used. If you think that,  you're falling for the power held over you.

So where does the state sponsored use of nerve agent fit into the Corbyn story.

I see no parallels here at all.

Navalny is a leader of people - greatly feared by the kremlin regime.

Corbyn was never a leader - an activist for sure and a man of principle certainly - but there was never any risk of him being banged up for his beliefs - or poisoned by the state.

Corbyn was leader of a Labour Party who very nearly took power of this country. Very weird you say he wasn't a leader.

Corbyn was sabotaged by the establishment, destroyed by them, as they must keep their power. Corbyn threatened that. There is the parallel. Nerve poison,  prison etc are just the means. The effect, and the motive is the same.

Putin is the face of who leads Russia,  we know that. Who leads the UK? Altogether probably a more sophisticated,  and nefarious bunch of evil psychopaths.

corbyn was sabotaged by the establishment but he was also sabotaged by himself,

[ravenrover]

Navalny is a surefire man of principle.

His treatment tells you all you need to know about the rotten and corrupt core of the kremlin regime.

Like I said, a parallel to the Corbyn case.

I didn't realise Corbyn has been locked up for the rest of his life - my apologies.

Sorry, was in another thread. Same motivation, same effect, but a different means. It doesn't make it better just because prison wasn't used. If you think that,  you're falling for the power held over you.

So where does the state sponsored use of nerve agent fit into the Corbyn story.

I see no parallels here at all.

Navalny is a leader of people - greatly feared by the kremlin regime.

Corbyn was never a leader - an activist for sure and a man of principle certainly - but there was never any risk of him being banged up for his beliefs - or poisoned by the state.

Corbyn was leader of a Labour Party who very nearly took power of this country. Very weird you say he wasn't a leader.

Corbyn was sabotaged by the establishment, destroyed by them, as they must keep their power. Corbyn threatened that. There is the parallel. Nerve poison,  prison etc are just the means. The effect, and the motive is the same.

Putin is the face of who leads Russia,  we know that. Who leads the UK? Altogether probably a more sophisticated,  and nefarious bunch of evil psychopaths.

Sorry, a Party that nearly took power!  but there was never a chance of Labour being elected with JC as leader

[BessieBlue]

Yes this thread is about Ukraine. Within that it's about perspectives on Ukraine, on Russia,  on their leadership, on their motives, on their influences, on the influences on the war in general. Without all that we are left with fixated narratives, like with that of our government,  of the BBC,  etc. That way we get half a story, not even that, and one that is in the interests of certain parties.

So when the treatment of an individual is demonised as with Navalny it is wise to see how the same happens here in the UK. As I said,  not the prison or whatever, but the undemocratic exclusion. That is exactly what happened with Corbyn. It happens in other ways,  to other individuals, to groups. It is always, as is the case in this Russian incident, in support of the establishment. It is ALWAYS the case, throughout history. Making out the Russian situation to be horrific whilst thinking that isn't the case here in our own backyard, and in backyards everywhere, is naîve. The establishment is your enemy whether its in Russia or the UK.

I readily admit I was watching the BBC 10.00pm news last night and Steve Rosenberg's piece on the Navalny trial largely behind closed doors in a penal colony well away from Moscow. I gleaned that the kremlin consider him a terrorist. He'd been poisoned by the state, treated in Germany and then he returned to Russia under his own free will.

Thats the BBC angle - can you now explain the Navalny situation purely from the kremlin perspective please? If you can keep to the subject matter and avoid any distractions about Corbyn, NATO, the west etc - Navalny and his situation in Russia - purely from the kremlin perspective!

[Bristol Red Rover]

Navalny is a surefire man of principle.

His treatment tells you all you need to know about the rotten and corrupt core of the kremlin regime.

Like I said, a parallel to the Corbyn case.

I didn't realise Corbyn has been locked up for the rest of his life - my apologies.

Sorry, was in another thread. Same motivation, same effect, but a different means. It doesn't make it better just because prison wasn't used. If you think that,  you're falling for the power held over you.

So where does the state sponsored use of nerve agent fit into the Corbyn story.

I see no parallels here at all.

Navalny is a leader of people - greatly feared by the kremlin regime.

Corbyn was never a leader - an activist for sure and a man of principle certainly - but there was never any risk of him being banged up for his beliefs - or poisoned by the state.

Corbyn was leader of a Labour Party who very nearly took power of this country. Very weird you say he wasn't a leader.

Corbyn was sabotaged by the establishment, destroyed by them, as they must keep their power. Corbyn threatened that. There is the parallel. Nerve poison,  prison etc are just the means. The effect, and the motive is the same.

Putin is the face of who leads Russia,  we know that. Who leads the UK? Altogether probably a more sophisticated,  and nefarious bunch of evil psychopaths.

Sorry, a Party that nearly took power!  but there was never a chance of Labour being elected with JC as leader

Yes, exactly. The establishment didn't allow it. Same situation in Russia.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Yes this thread is about Ukraine. Within that it's about perspectives on Ukraine, on Russia,  on their leadership, on their motives, on their influences, on the influences on the war in general. Without all that we are left with fixated narratives, like with that of our government,  of the BBC,  etc. That way we get half a story, not even that, and one that is in the interests of certain parties.

So when the treatment of an individual is demonised as with Navalny it is wise to see how the same happens here in the UK. As I said,  not the prison or whatever, but the undemocratic exclusion. That is exactly what happened with Corbyn. It happens in other ways,  to other individuals, to groups. It is always, as is the case in this Russian incident, in support of the establishment. It is ALWAYS the case, throughout history. Making out the Russian situation to be horrific whilst thinking that isn't the case here in our own backyard, and in backyards everywhere, is naîve. The establishment is your enemy whether its in Russia or the UK.

I readily admit I was watching the BBC 10.00pm news last night and Steve Rosenberg's piece on the Navalny trial largely behind closed doors in a penal colony well away from Moscow. I gleaned that the kremlin consider him a terrorist. He'd been poisoned by the state, treated in Germany and then he returned to Russia under his own free will.

Thats the BBC angle - can you now explain the Navalny situation purely from the kremlin perspective please? If you can keep to the subject matter and avoid any distractions about Corbyn, NATO, the west etc - Navalny and his situation in Russia - purely from the kremlin perspective!

I don't know the details. I'm accepting the probability he is simply not desired. Corbyn wasn't desired either - and he's far from the only one. To say that's a distraction to bring up is showing you don't see how the whole world is controlled by various establishments, including in your backyard. Why is Russia more important to you than your backyard?

[BessieBlue]

Yes this thread is about Ukraine. Within that it's about perspectives on Ukraine, on Russia,  on their leadership, on their motives, on their influences, on the influences on the war in general. Without all that we are left with fixated narratives, like with that of our government,  of the BBC,  etc. That way we get half a story, not even that, and one that is in the interests of certain parties.

So when the treatment of an individual is demonised as with Navalny it is wise to see how the same happens here in the UK. As I said,  not the prison or whatever, but the undemocratic exclusion. That is exactly what happened with Corbyn. It happens in other ways,  to other individuals, to groups. It is always, as is the case in this Russian incident, in support of the establishment. It is ALWAYS the case, throughout history. Making out the Russian situation to be horrific whilst thinking that isn't the case here in our own backyard, and in backyards everywhere, is naîve. The establishment is your enemy whether its in Russia or the UK.

I readily admit I was watching the BBC 10.00pm news last night and Steve Rosenberg's piece on the Navalny trial largely behind closed doors in a penal colony well away from Moscow. I gleaned that the kremlin consider him a terrorist. He'd been poisoned by the state, treated in Germany and then he returned to Russia under his own free will.

Thats the BBC angle - can you now explain the Navalny situation purely from the kremlin perspective please? If you can keep to the subject matter and avoid any distractions about Corbyn, NATO, the west etc - Navalny and his situation in Russia - purely from the kremlin perspective!

I don't know the details. I'm accepting the probability he is simply not desired. Corbyn wasn't desired either - and he's far from the only one. To say that's a distraction to bring up is showing you don't see how the whole world is controlled by various establishments, including in your backyard. Why is Russia more important to you than your backyard?

This thread is about Ukraine - my observation was about the rotten and corrupt kremlin regime that banged up a man of principle for life effectively. You say he isn't desired. That seems a bizarre reason to lock somebody up - why do they not desire him? Do you think they fear him? Do you think their intent is to crush all political opposition?

[ravenrover]

Navalny is a surefire man of principle.

His treatment tells you all you need to know about the rotten and corrupt core of the kremlin regime.

Like I said, a parallel to the Corbyn case.

I didn't realise Corbyn has been locked up for the rest of his life - my apologies.

Sorry, was in another thread. Same motivation, same effect, but a different means. It doesn't make it better just because prison wasn't used. If you think that,  you're falling for the power held over you.

So where does the state sponsored use of nerve agent fit into the Corbyn story.

I see no parallels here at all.

Navalny is a leader of people - greatly feared by the kremlin regime.

Corbyn was never a leader - an activist for sure and a man of principle certainly - but there was never any risk of him being banged up for his beliefs - or poisoned by the state.

Corbyn was leader of a Labour Party who very nearly took power of this country. Very weird you say he wasn't a leader.

Corbyn was sabotaged by the establishment, destroyed by them, as they must keep their power. Corbyn threatened that. There is the parallel. Nerve poison,  prison etc are just the means. The effect, and the motive is the same.

Putin is the face of who leads Russia,  we know that. Who leads the UK? Altogether probably a more sophisticated,  and nefarious bunch of evil psychopaths.

Sorry, a Party that nearly took power!  but there was never a chance of Labour being elected with JC as leader

Yes, exactly. The establishment didn't allow it. Same situation in Russia.

No it was the electorate

[Bristol Red Rover]

Yes this thread is about Ukraine. Within that it's about perspectives on Ukraine, on Russia,  on their leadership, on their motives, on their influences, on the influences on the war in general. Without all that we are left with fixated narratives, like with that of our government,  of the BBC,  etc. That way we get half a story, not even that, and one that is in the interests of certain parties.

So when the treatment of an individual is demonised as with Navalny it is wise to see how the same happens here in the UK. As I said,  not the prison or whatever, but the undemocratic exclusion. That is exactly what happened with Corbyn. It happens in other ways,  to other individuals, to groups. It is always, as is the case in this Russian incident, in support of the establishment. It is ALWAYS the case, throughout history. Making out the Russian situation to be horrific whilst thinking that isn't the case here in our own backyard, and in backyards everywhere, is naîve. The establishment is your enemy whether its in Russia or the UK.

I readily admit I was watching the BBC 10.00pm news last night and Steve Rosenberg's piece on the Navalny trial largely behind closed doors in a penal colony well away from Moscow. I gleaned that the kremlin consider him a terrorist. He'd been poisoned by the state, treated in Germany and then he returned to Russia under his own free will.

Thats the BBC angle - can you now explain the Navalny situation purely from the kremlin perspective please? If you can keep to the subject matter and avoid any distractions about Corbyn, NATO, the west etc - Navalny and his situation in Russia - purely from the kremlin perspective!

I don't know the details. I'm accepting the probability he is simply not desired. Corbyn wasn't desired either - and he's far from the only one. To say that's a distraction to bring up is showing you don't see how the whole world is controlled by various establishments, including in your backyard. Why is Russia more important to you than your backyard?

This thread is about Ukraine - my observation was about the rotten and corrupt kremlin regime that banged up a man of principle for life effectively. You say he isn't desired. That seems a bizarre reason to lock somebody up - why do they not desire him? Do you think they fear him? Do you think their intent is to crush all political opposition?

About Ukraine? Or Russia? Or geo politics? Or about political elites and the powers behind them abusing? Take your pick.

Yes their intent is to crush all opposition. As it is the world over. Just different countries employ slightly different means.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Navalny is a surefire man of principle.

His treatment tells you all you need to know about the rotten and corrupt core of the kremlin regime.

Like I said, a parallel to the Corbyn case.

I didn't realise Corbyn has been locked up for the rest of his life - my apologies.

Sorry, was in another thread. Same motivation, same effect, but a different means. It doesn't make it better just because prison wasn't used. If you think that,  you're falling for the power held over you.

So where does the state sponsored use of nerve agent fit into the Corbyn story.

I see no parallels here at all.

Navalny is a leader of people - greatly feared by the kremlin regime.

Corbyn was never a leader - an activist for sure and a man of principle certainly - but there was never any risk of him being banged up for his beliefs - or poisoned by the state.

Corbyn was leader of a Labour Party who very nearly took power of this country. Very weird you say he wasn't a leader.

Corbyn was sabotaged by the establishment, destroyed by them, as they must keep their power. Corbyn threatened that. There is the parallel. Nerve poison,  prison etc are just the means. The effect, and the motive is the same.

Putin is the face of who leads Russia,  we know that. Who leads the UK? Altogether probably a more sophisticated,  and nefarious bunch of evil psychopaths.

Sorry, a Party that nearly took power!  but there was never a chance of Labour being elected with JC as leader

Yes, exactly. The establishment didn't allow it. Same situation in Russia.

No it was the electorate

And the establishment via various media, slur tactics had nothing to do with it? Ah well, wear your "democracy" badge with pride. Power to the people.