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Meanwhile.... https://metro.co.uk/2023/08/04/russia-ukraine-drone-russian-navy-ship-19266301/?ito=pull-notification&ci=3KN74GKKpV&xi=2ac9f9b0-c48c-43c4-a249-80b608958060&ai=19266301 I suspect Putin is not a happy chappy right now.
Quote from: Not Now Kato on August 04, 2023, 10:45:28 amMeanwhile.... https://metro.co.uk/2023/08/04/russia-ukraine-drone-russian-navy-ship-19266301/?ito=pull-notification&ci=3KN74GKKpV&xi=2ac9f9b0-c48c-43c4-a249-80b608958060&ai=19266301 I suspect Putin is not a happy chappy right now.Probably not in that instance. Tis a bit weird they haven't solved the navy drone problem, there's a very easy fix - park up the ships behind a few layers of netting from Wickes.
Meanwhile.... https://metro.co.uk/2023/08/04/russia-ukraine-drone-russian-navy-ship-19266301/?ito=pull-notification&ci=3KN74GKKpV&xi=2ac9f9b0-c48c-43c4-a249-80b608958060&ai=19266301 I suspect Putin is not a happy chappy right now.
Navalny is a surefire man of principle.His treatment tells you all you need to know about the rotten and corrupt core of the kremlin regime.
Quote from: Bristol Red Rover on August 04, 2023, 09:13:44 pmQuote from: Not Now Kato on August 04, 2023, 10:45:28 amMeanwhile.... https://metro.co.uk/2023/08/04/russia-ukraine-drone-russian-navy-ship-19266301/?ito=pull-notification&ci=3KN74GKKpV&xi=2ac9f9b0-c48c-43c4-a249-80b608958060&ai=19266301 I suspect Putin is not a happy chappy right now.Probably not in that instance. Tis a bit weird they haven't solved the navy drone problem, there's a very easy fix - park up the ships behind a few layers of netting from Wickes. If the ships all have to be parked is that not mission accomplished for the Ukrainian drones?
Quote from: Not Now Kato on August 04, 2023, 10:45:28 amMeanwhile.... https://metro.co.uk/2023/08/04/russia-ukraine-drone-russian-navy-ship-19266301/?ito=pull-notification&ci=3KN74GKKpV&xi=2ac9f9b0-c48c-43c4-a249-80b608958060&ai=19266301 I suspect Putin is not a happy chappy right now.Probably not in that instance. Tis a bit weird they haven't solved the navy drone problem, there's a very easy fix - park up the ships behind a few layers of netting from Wickes.
Meanwhile.... https://metro.co.uk/2023/08/04/russia-ukraine-drone-russian-navy-ship-19266301/?ito=pull-notification&ci=3KN74GKKpV&xi=2ac9f9b0-c48c-43c4-a249-80b608958060&ai=19266301 I suspect Putin is not a happy chappy right now.
Quote from: BessieBlue on August 04, 2023, 10:08:41 pmNavalny is a surefire man of principle.His treatment tells you all you need to know about the rotten and corrupt core of the kremlin regime.Like I said, a parallel to the Corbyn case.
When the history of the 21st century is written, if Russia has come back from the bestial depravity it has currently sunk into, Navalny will be an example of the very best that Russia produced.
Quote from: Bristol Red Rover on August 04, 2023, 10:15:53 pmQuote from: BessieBlue on August 04, 2023, 10:08:41 pmNavalny is a surefire man of principle.His treatment tells you all you need to know about the rotten and corrupt core of the kremlin regime.Like I said, a parallel to the Corbyn case. I didn't realise Corbyn has been locked up for the rest of his life - my apologies.
Quote from: BessieBlue on August 04, 2023, 10:21:29 pmQuote from: Bristol Red Rover on August 04, 2023, 10:15:53 pmQuote from: BessieBlue on August 04, 2023, 10:08:41 pmNavalny is a surefire man of principle.His treatment tells you all you need to know about the rotten and corrupt core of the kremlin regime.Like I said, a parallel to the Corbyn case. I didn't realise Corbyn has been locked up for the rest of his life - my apologies.BRR has come out with some breathtakingly amoral bothsides stuff this past 18 months, but this tops the lot. That's where a lifetime of so-far-left-it's-far-right political beliefs leaves you. Drawing parallels between the fates of Navalny and Corbyn.If it wasn't so serious, it would be hilarious.
Quote from: BessieBlue on August 04, 2023, 10:21:29 pmQuote from: Bristol Red Rover on August 04, 2023, 10:15:53 pmQuote from: BessieBlue on August 04, 2023, 10:08:41 pmNavalny is a surefire man of principle.His treatment tells you all you need to know about the rotten and corrupt core of the kremlin regime.Like I said, a parallel to the Corbyn case. I didn't realise Corbyn has been locked up for the rest of his life - my apologies.Sorry, was in another thread. Same motivation, same effect, but a different means. It doesn't make it better just because prison wasn't used. If you think that, you're falling for the power held over you.
Quote from: Bristol Red Rover on August 04, 2023, 10:31:07 pmQuote from: BessieBlue on August 04, 2023, 10:21:29 pmQuote from: Bristol Red Rover on August 04, 2023, 10:15:53 pmQuote from: BessieBlue on August 04, 2023, 10:08:41 pmNavalny is a surefire man of principle.His treatment tells you all you need to know about the rotten and corrupt core of the kremlin regime.Like I said, a parallel to the Corbyn case. I didn't realise Corbyn has been locked up for the rest of his life - my apologies.Sorry, was in another thread. Same motivation, same effect, but a different means. It doesn't make it better just because prison wasn't used. If you think that, you're falling for the power held over you. So where does the state sponsored use of nerve agent fit into the Corbyn story.I see no parallels here at all.Navalny is a leader of people - greatly feared by the kremlin regime.Corbyn was never a leader - an activist for sure and a man of principle certainly - but there was never any risk of him being banged up for his beliefs - or poisoned by the state.
Quote from: BessieBlue on August 04, 2023, 10:41:24 pmQuote from: Bristol Red Rover on August 04, 2023, 10:31:07 pmQuote from: BessieBlue on August 04, 2023, 10:21:29 pmQuote from: Bristol Red Rover on August 04, 2023, 10:15:53 pmQuote from: BessieBlue on August 04, 2023, 10:08:41 pmNavalny is a surefire man of principle.His treatment tells you all you need to know about the rotten and corrupt core of the kremlin regime.Like I said, a parallel to the Corbyn case. I didn't realise Corbyn has been locked up for the rest of his life - my apologies.Sorry, was in another thread. Same motivation, same effect, but a different means. It doesn't make it better just because prison wasn't used. If you think that, you're falling for the power held over you. So where does the state sponsored use of nerve agent fit into the Corbyn story.I see no parallels here at all.Navalny is a leader of people - greatly feared by the kremlin regime.Corbyn was never a leader - an activist for sure and a man of principle certainly - but there was never any risk of him being banged up for his beliefs - or poisoned by the state.Corbyn was leader of a Labour Party who very nearly took power of this country. Very weird you say he wasn't a leader. Corbyn was sabotaged by the establishment, destroyed by them, as they must keep their power. Corbyn threatened that. There is the parallel. Nerve poison, prison etc are just the means. The effect, and the motive is the same.Putin is the face of who leads Russia, we know that. Who leads the UK? Altogether probably a more sophisticated, and nefarious bunch of evil psychopaths.
Yes this thread is about Ukraine. Within that it's about perspectives on Ukraine, on Russia, on their leadership, on their motives, on their influences, on the influences on the war in general. Without all that we are left with fixated narratives, like with that of our government, of the BBC, etc. That way we get half a story, not even that, and one that is in the interests of certain parties.So when the treatment of an individual is demonised as with Navalny it is wise to see how the same happens here in the UK. As I said, not the prison or whatever, but the undemocratic exclusion. That is exactly what happened with Corbyn. It happens in other ways, to other individuals, to groups. It is always, as is the case in this Russian incident, in support of the establishment. It is ALWAYS the case, throughout history. Making out the Russian situation to be horrific whilst thinking that isn't the case here in our own backyard, and in backyards everywhere, is naîve. The establishment is your enemy whether its in Russia or the UK.
Quote from: Bristol Red Rover on August 04, 2023, 10:47:47 pmQuote from: BessieBlue on August 04, 2023, 10:41:24 pmQuote from: Bristol Red Rover on August 04, 2023, 10:31:07 pmQuote from: BessieBlue on August 04, 2023, 10:21:29 pmQuote from: Bristol Red Rover on August 04, 2023, 10:15:53 pmQuote from: BessieBlue on August 04, 2023, 10:08:41 pmNavalny is a surefire man of principle.His treatment tells you all you need to know about the rotten and corrupt core of the kremlin regime.Like I said, a parallel to the Corbyn case. I didn't realise Corbyn has been locked up for the rest of his life - my apologies.Sorry, was in another thread. Same motivation, same effect, but a different means. It doesn't make it better just because prison wasn't used. If you think that, you're falling for the power held over you. So where does the state sponsored use of nerve agent fit into the Corbyn story.I see no parallels here at all.Navalny is a leader of people - greatly feared by the kremlin regime.Corbyn was never a leader - an activist for sure and a man of principle certainly - but there was never any risk of him being banged up for his beliefs - or poisoned by the state.Corbyn was leader of a Labour Party who very nearly took power of this country. Very weird you say he wasn't a leader. Corbyn was sabotaged by the establishment, destroyed by them, as they must keep their power. Corbyn threatened that. There is the parallel. Nerve poison, prison etc are just the means. The effect, and the motive is the same.Putin is the face of who leads Russia, we know that. Who leads the UK? Altogether probably a more sophisticated, and nefarious bunch of evil psychopaths. Sorry, a Party that nearly took power! but there was never a chance of Labour being elected with JC as leader
Quote from: Bristol Red Rover on August 05, 2023, 01:14:07 amYes this thread is about Ukraine. Within that it's about perspectives on Ukraine, on Russia, on their leadership, on their motives, on their influences, on the influences on the war in general. Without all that we are left with fixated narratives, like with that of our government, of the BBC, etc. That way we get half a story, not even that, and one that is in the interests of certain parties.So when the treatment of an individual is demonised as with Navalny it is wise to see how the same happens here in the UK. As I said, not the prison or whatever, but the undemocratic exclusion. That is exactly what happened with Corbyn. It happens in other ways, to other individuals, to groups. It is always, as is the case in this Russian incident, in support of the establishment. It is ALWAYS the case, throughout history. Making out the Russian situation to be horrific whilst thinking that isn't the case here in our own backyard, and in backyards everywhere, is naîve. The establishment is your enemy whether its in Russia or the UK. I readily admit I was watching the BBC 10.00pm news last night and Steve Rosenberg's piece on the Navalny trial largely behind closed doors in a penal colony well away from Moscow. I gleaned that the kremlin consider him a terrorist. He'd been poisoned by the state, treated in Germany and then he returned to Russia under his own free will.Thats the BBC angle - can you now explain the Navalny situation purely from the kremlin perspective please? If you can keep to the subject matter and avoid any distractions about Corbyn, NATO, the west etc - Navalny and his situation in Russia - purely from the kremlin perspective!
Quote from: BessieBlue on August 05, 2023, 11:59:21 amQuote from: Bristol Red Rover on August 05, 2023, 01:14:07 amYes this thread is about Ukraine. Within that it's about perspectives on Ukraine, on Russia, on their leadership, on their motives, on their influences, on the influences on the war in general. Without all that we are left with fixated narratives, like with that of our government, of the BBC, etc. That way we get half a story, not even that, and one that is in the interests of certain parties.So when the treatment of an individual is demonised as with Navalny it is wise to see how the same happens here in the UK. As I said, not the prison or whatever, but the undemocratic exclusion. That is exactly what happened with Corbyn. It happens in other ways, to other individuals, to groups. It is always, as is the case in this Russian incident, in support of the establishment. It is ALWAYS the case, throughout history. Making out the Russian situation to be horrific whilst thinking that isn't the case here in our own backyard, and in backyards everywhere, is naîve. The establishment is your enemy whether its in Russia or the UK. I readily admit I was watching the BBC 10.00pm news last night and Steve Rosenberg's piece on the Navalny trial largely behind closed doors in a penal colony well away from Moscow. I gleaned that the kremlin consider him a terrorist. He'd been poisoned by the state, treated in Germany and then he returned to Russia under his own free will.Thats the BBC angle - can you now explain the Navalny situation purely from the kremlin perspective please? If you can keep to the subject matter and avoid any distractions about Corbyn, NATO, the west etc - Navalny and his situation in Russia - purely from the kremlin perspective!I don't know the details. I'm accepting the probability he is simply not desired. Corbyn wasn't desired either - and he's far from the only one. To say that's a distraction to bring up is showing you don't see how the whole world is controlled by various establishments, including in your backyard. Why is Russia more important to you than your backyard?
Quote from: ravenrover on August 05, 2023, 10:54:52 amQuote from: Bristol Red Rover on August 04, 2023, 10:47:47 pmQuote from: BessieBlue on August 04, 2023, 10:41:24 pmQuote from: Bristol Red Rover on August 04, 2023, 10:31:07 pmQuote from: BessieBlue on August 04, 2023, 10:21:29 pmQuote from: Bristol Red Rover on August 04, 2023, 10:15:53 pmQuote from: BessieBlue on August 04, 2023, 10:08:41 pmNavalny is a surefire man of principle.His treatment tells you all you need to know about the rotten and corrupt core of the kremlin regime.Like I said, a parallel to the Corbyn case. I didn't realise Corbyn has been locked up for the rest of his life - my apologies.Sorry, was in another thread. Same motivation, same effect, but a different means. It doesn't make it better just because prison wasn't used. If you think that, you're falling for the power held over you. So where does the state sponsored use of nerve agent fit into the Corbyn story.I see no parallels here at all.Navalny is a leader of people - greatly feared by the kremlin regime.Corbyn was never a leader - an activist for sure and a man of principle certainly - but there was never any risk of him being banged up for his beliefs - or poisoned by the state.Corbyn was leader of a Labour Party who very nearly took power of this country. Very weird you say he wasn't a leader. Corbyn was sabotaged by the establishment, destroyed by them, as they must keep their power. Corbyn threatened that. There is the parallel. Nerve poison, prison etc are just the means. The effect, and the motive is the same.Putin is the face of who leads Russia, we know that. Who leads the UK? Altogether probably a more sophisticated, and nefarious bunch of evil psychopaths. Sorry, a Party that nearly took power! but there was never a chance of Labour being elected with JC as leaderYes, exactly. The establishment didn't allow it. Same situation in Russia.
Quote from: Bristol Red Rover on August 05, 2023, 04:35:13 pmQuote from: BessieBlue on August 05, 2023, 11:59:21 amQuote from: Bristol Red Rover on August 05, 2023, 01:14:07 amYes this thread is about Ukraine. Within that it's about perspectives on Ukraine, on Russia, on their leadership, on their motives, on their influences, on the influences on the war in general. Without all that we are left with fixated narratives, like with that of our government, of the BBC, etc. That way we get half a story, not even that, and one that is in the interests of certain parties.So when the treatment of an individual is demonised as with Navalny it is wise to see how the same happens here in the UK. As I said, not the prison or whatever, but the undemocratic exclusion. That is exactly what happened with Corbyn. It happens in other ways, to other individuals, to groups. It is always, as is the case in this Russian incident, in support of the establishment. It is ALWAYS the case, throughout history. Making out the Russian situation to be horrific whilst thinking that isn't the case here in our own backyard, and in backyards everywhere, is naîve. The establishment is your enemy whether its in Russia or the UK. I readily admit I was watching the BBC 10.00pm news last night and Steve Rosenberg's piece on the Navalny trial largely behind closed doors in a penal colony well away from Moscow. I gleaned that the kremlin consider him a terrorist. He'd been poisoned by the state, treated in Germany and then he returned to Russia under his own free will.Thats the BBC angle - can you now explain the Navalny situation purely from the kremlin perspective please? If you can keep to the subject matter and avoid any distractions about Corbyn, NATO, the west etc - Navalny and his situation in Russia - purely from the kremlin perspective!I don't know the details. I'm accepting the probability he is simply not desired. Corbyn wasn't desired either - and he's far from the only one. To say that's a distraction to bring up is showing you don't see how the whole world is controlled by various establishments, including in your backyard. Why is Russia more important to you than your backyard? This thread is about Ukraine - my observation was about the rotten and corrupt kremlin regime that banged up a man of principle for life effectively. You say he isn't desired. That seems a bizarre reason to lock somebody up - why do they not desire him? Do you think they fear him? Do you think their intent is to crush all political opposition?
Quote from: Bristol Red Rover on August 05, 2023, 04:31:09 pmQuote from: ravenrover on August 05, 2023, 10:54:52 amQuote from: Bristol Red Rover on August 04, 2023, 10:47:47 pmQuote from: BessieBlue on August 04, 2023, 10:41:24 pmQuote from: Bristol Red Rover on August 04, 2023, 10:31:07 pmQuote from: BessieBlue on August 04, 2023, 10:21:29 pmQuote from: Bristol Red Rover on August 04, 2023, 10:15:53 pmQuote from: BessieBlue on August 04, 2023, 10:08:41 pmNavalny is a surefire man of principle.His treatment tells you all you need to know about the rotten and corrupt core of the kremlin regime.Like I said, a parallel to the Corbyn case. I didn't realise Corbyn has been locked up for the rest of his life - my apologies.Sorry, was in another thread. Same motivation, same effect, but a different means. It doesn't make it better just because prison wasn't used. If you think that, you're falling for the power held over you. So where does the state sponsored use of nerve agent fit into the Corbyn story.I see no parallels here at all.Navalny is a leader of people - greatly feared by the kremlin regime.Corbyn was never a leader - an activist for sure and a man of principle certainly - but there was never any risk of him being banged up for his beliefs - or poisoned by the state.Corbyn was leader of a Labour Party who very nearly took power of this country. Very weird you say he wasn't a leader. Corbyn was sabotaged by the establishment, destroyed by them, as they must keep their power. Corbyn threatened that. There is the parallel. Nerve poison, prison etc are just the means. The effect, and the motive is the same.Putin is the face of who leads Russia, we know that. Who leads the UK? Altogether probably a more sophisticated, and nefarious bunch of evil psychopaths. Sorry, a Party that nearly took power! but there was never a chance of Labour being elected with JC as leaderYes, exactly. The establishment didn't allow it. Same situation in Russia. No it was the electorate