Jeremy Clarkson should be sacked!

[Filo]

Madmick I'm not sure you can handle the truth but lets live in hope. I pay over £200 a month for my pension. From April it will be over £300 if the government gets its way. I have had a pay freeze for the last two years and apparently will get no more than 1%(and could be less) per year for the next 4 years. The way my pension is calculated will also change so that I get less. As a teacher I can retire(on a much reduced pension) at 60 or get a full pension (linked to number of years I have been teaching)at 65. The government keep on about life expectancy going up but they will never tell you that this is not the case with teachers. A teacher who retires at 60 has an average life expectancy. A teacher who retires at 65 on average dies at 68. They want teachers to carry on working until 68. Well that's a very clever way to ensure you never have to pay out. Do you want someone teaching your kids or grandchildren at 68 anyway? Also older public sector workers in jobs will block younger getting jobs thus increasing youth unemployment. A settlement was reached in 2007 that was both fair to the public and to the public sector. When you take inflation into consideration 48 Billion more has been paid into the teachers pension scheme since it started than has ever been taken out. The pension raid is nothing more than a stealth tax. All the public sector pensions with the exception of the armed forces pension are fully funded.Then again I don't begrudge the pensions our brave armed forces get. Times are hard but the current government tells one lie after another. Teachers can receive a full pension after 30-40 years depending on when they started teaching as long as they are also retirement age. MP's get a full pension after 15 years not to mention various other perks.Are we truly all in this together? If the MP's accepted what they are offering me I would agree reluctantly to what is being suggested. Yes teachers do get lots of holidays but what you don't realise is we only get paid for the days we teach and that pay is then averaged out through the year.Besides which I work through most of mine (with the general exception of the summer holidays). I am also up most days well past midnight marking and planning. The Government could easily raise the money that is needed by cutting over a longer period of time and by tightening up on tax avoidance of the mega rich. Also remember that bankers got us into this mess and have a certain moral responsibility to get us out. Try looking at this website robinhoodtax.org/ It is easier for the Government just to target middle Britain- the nurses and teachers who they didn't think would strike. The pay in the public sector in general does not match up with professionals in the private sector. A decent pension is seen as a trade off for accepting lower annual pay when negotiations take place. Remember your roots. I'd rather strike for my rights than be a scab. Anyway although I could go on I think I've written enough.

I agree, you've written more than enough. So you pay a measly £200 per month into a pension on your not insignificant salary of must be about £40k. No doubt your partner is also in the public sector and has a gold plated scheme as well. Do you know how much that kind of contribution would get you in the real world in the private sector. I bet you haven't a clue. I'll tell you, about £4000 per year.

Here's a typical example. A teacher on £32,000 a year can retire with a pension equivalent to having built up a private sector pension pot of £500,000 - 20 times higher than the average. Every British family faces a total bill of £13,500 to pay pensions for teachers.

Teachers can on average retire on annual pensions of £24,000 plus a lump sum of £70,000, and headteachers get £42,000 a year. These payouts don’t come from some great bank vault full of cash that teachers have contributed over the past. The teachers’ pension scheme is ‘unfunded’. That means the cash comes from current government expenditure. More plainly, it comes from tax or government borrowing.

Assuming you don't get promoted you are currently looking at about £26,664. Quite a difference from £4,000 in the private sector isn't it. Who makes up the difference? The mugs in the private sector. I've ignored the fact that you've been paying less than £200 per month into your scheme as no doubt your salary was considerably lower when you first started teaching. So in the real world you wouldn't even get £4,000.

You currently also have the benefit of your pension being based on your final salary. So if you get promoted you will be in line for another considerable windfall at the private sectors expense. So bleating on about having to pay an extra 3% towards your pension is truly ungrateful of you. Retiring on a full pension after just 30 years is really taking the biscuit.

You've had a pay freeze have you? Well excuse me for not feeling sorry for you. You've still got a job and an excellent salary with lots of perks that we in the private sector could only dream of. It also seems to have escaped your notice but the private sector has suffered considerably more than the public sector and it's time you took some of the pain.

You also don't mention your unbelievable job security. How many teachers have been sacked for incompetence in the last 40 years? I bet you haven't a clue. It's an amazingly small number of 18. Yes 18!!!! No wonder our school kids are being short changed.

The average life expectancy of a teacher is about 90 and it is rising. If you are daft enough to work right up to the last minute and decrease your life expectancy so dramatically then maybe you shouldn't be a teacher because you are obviously very unintelligent. No-one is forcing you to work to 68. You could easily afford to retire early. What about a career change to prolong life expectancy? You really should have been able to work that one out for yourself.

I know people that are teachers and they have a very good life. If you are up until after midnight regularly working then you must be rubbish at planning and need to go on a time management course.

Just because MP's take the biscuit with their pension arrangements there is no need for you to follow suit. The country is in a financial mess and there isn't enough tax being collected to fund your lavish pensions. We are still borrowing money to keep the lid on things. Instead of blaming the bankers why not try blaming Gordon Brown for his wild overspending and failure to regulate the banks.

What! so that the Tories can de-regulate them again this time around?

[vaya]

Madmick I'm not sure you can handle the truth but lets live in hope. I pay over £200 a month for my pension. From April it will be over £300 if the government gets its way. I have had a pay freeze for the last two years and apparently will get no more than 1%(and could be less) per year for the next 4 years. The way my pension is calculated will also change so that I get less. As a teacher I can retire(on a much reduced pension) at 60 or get a full pension (linked to number of years I have been teaching)at 65. The government keep on about life expectancy going up but they will never tell you that this is not the case with teachers. A teacher who retires at 60 has an average life expectancy. A teacher who retires at 65 on average dies at 68. They want teachers to carry on working until 68. Well that's a very clever way to ensure you never have to pay out. Do you want someone teaching your kids or grandchildren at 68 anyway? Also older public sector workers in jobs will block younger getting jobs thus increasing youth unemployment. A settlement was reached in 2007 that was both fair to the public and to the public sector. When you take inflation into consideration 48 Billion more has been paid into the teachers pension scheme since it started than has ever been taken out. The pension raid is nothing more than a stealth tax. All the public sector pensions with the exception of the armed forces pension are fully funded.Then again I don't begrudge the pensions our brave armed forces get. Times are hard but the current government tells one lie after another. Teachers can receive a full pension after 30-40 years depending on when they started teaching as long as they are also retirement age. MP's get a full pension after 15 years not to mention various other perks.Are we truly all in this together? If the MP's accepted what they are offering me I would agree reluctantly to what is being suggested. Yes teachers do get lots of holidays but what you don't realise is we only get paid for the days we teach and that pay is then averaged out through the year.Besides which I work through most of mine (with the general exception of the summer holidays). I am also up most days well past midnight marking and planning. The Government could easily raise the money that is needed by cutting over a longer period of time and by tightening up on tax avoidance of the mega rich. Also remember that bankers got us into this mess and have a certain moral responsibility to get us out. Try looking at this website robinhoodtax.org/ It is easier for the Government just to target middle Britain- the nurses and teachers who they didn't think would strike. The pay in the public sector in general does not match up with professionals in the private sector. A decent pension is seen as a trade off for accepting lower annual pay when negotiations take place. Remember your roots. I'd rather strike for my rights than be a scab. Anyway although I could go on I think I've written enough.

I agree, you've written more than enough. So you pay a measly £200 per month into a pension on your not insignificant salary of must be about £40k. No doubt your partner is also in the public sector and has a gold plated scheme as well. Do you know how much that kind of contribution would get you in the real world in the private sector. I bet you haven't a clue. I'll tell you, about £4000 per year.

Here's a typical example. A teacher on £32,000 a year can retire with a pension equivalent to having built up a private sector pension pot of £500,000 - 20 times higher than the average. Every British family faces a total bill of £13,500 to pay pensions for teachers.

Teachers can on average retire on annual pensions of £24,000 plus a lump sum of £70,000, and headteachers get £42,000 a year. These payouts don’t come from some great bank vault full of cash that teachers have contributed over the past. The teachers’ pension scheme is ‘unfunded’. That means the cash comes from current government expenditure. More plainly, it comes from tax or government borrowing.

Assuming you don't get promoted you are currently looking at about £26,664. Quite a difference from £4,000 in the private sector isn't it. Who makes up the difference? The mugs in the private sector. I've ignored the fact that you've been paying less than £200 per month into your scheme as no doubt your salary was considerably lower when you first started teaching. So in the real world you wouldn't even get £4,000.

You currently also have the benefit of your pension being based on your final salary. So if you get promoted you will be in line for another considerable windfall at the private sectors expense. So bleating on about having to pay an extra 3% towards your pension is truly ungrateful of you. Retiring on a full pension after just 30 years is really taking the biscuit.

You've had a pay freeze have you? Well excuse me for not feeling sorry for you. You've still got a job and an excellent salary with lots of perks that we in the private sector could only dream of. It also seems to have escaped your notice but the private sector has suffered considerably more than the public sector and it's time you took some of the pain.

You also don't mention your unbelievable job security. How many teachers have been sacked for incompetence in the last 40 years? I bet you haven't a clue. It's an amazingly small number of 18. Yes 18!!!! No wonder our school kids are being short changed.

The average life expectancy of a teacher is about 90 and it is rising. If you are daft enough to work right up to the last minute and decrease your life expectancy so dramatically then maybe you shouldn't be a teacher because you are obviously very unintelligent. No-one is forcing you to work to 68. You could easily afford to retire early. What about a career change to prolong life expectancy? You really should have been able to work that one out for yourself.

I know people that are teachers and they have a very good life. If you are up until after midnight regularly working then you must be rubbish at planning and need to go on a time management course.

Just because MP's take the biscuit with their pension arrangements there is no need for you to follow suit. The country is in a financial mess and there isn't enough tax being collected to fund your lavish pensions. We are still borrowing money to keep the lid on things. Instead of blaming the bankers why not try blaming Gordon Brown for his wild overspending and failure to regulate the banks.

Fascinating. I don't believe a word of it, and I doubt he does either.

We started out with \"There are at least 2 public sector workers for every one private sector worker in the real world\" which would mean a private sector workforce of 3 million and a total workforce of 9 million out of a population of 60 million. It's miracle we keep going as a nation.

That's made up off the top of his head, the rest undoubtedly is as well, let alone the convenient appearance of the hitherto-unknown MrsMadPubicSectorMick three days after the thread's started.

[madmick50]

Fascinating. I don't believe a word of it,

Here's one piece of shocking evidence:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/panorama/2010/07/join_the_debate_on_can_i_sack.html

[madmick50]

We started out with \"There are at least 2 public sector workers for every one private sector worker in the real world\" which would mean a private sector workforce of 3 million and a total workforce of 9 million out of a population of 60 million. It's miracle we keep going as a nation.

You've misunderstood the point I was trying to make.

[bobjimwilly]

We started out with \"There are at least 2 public sector workers for every one private sector worker in the real world\" which would mean a private sector workforce of 3 million and a total workforce of 9 million out of a population of 60 million. It's miracle we keep going as a nation.

You've misunderstood the point I was trying to make. Let me elaborate. If the public sector was run like the private sector (in other words efficiently), there would be half as many public sector workers. That's because it takes 2 people in the public sector to do the equivalent job of 1 person in the private sector.

What an absolute load of sh*te! You really don't have a clue, and you're obviously on here just to wind people up; either that or you're a lunatic?

That sweeping statement of yours covers nurses, firemen, social workers, council workers, border agency staff, cleaners, teachers... you're saying if all these jobs were moved to the private sector the number of required employees in those sectors would halve??

[vaya]

We started out with \"There are at least 2 public sector workers for every one private sector worker in the real world\" which would mean a private sector workforce of 3 million and a total workforce of 9 million out of a population of 60 million. It's miracle we keep going as a nation.

You've misunderstood the point I was trying to make. Let me elaborate. If the public sector was run like the private sector (in other words efficiently), there would be half as many public sector workers. That's because it takes 2 people in the public sector to do the equivalent job of 1 person in the private sector.

Oh dear.

1) What has the ability/inability to sack a teacher got to do with the debate abaout pensions? You could just as easily counter with asking how many FTSE Top 100 companies have sacked their heads for incompetence, or how many top bankers have been sacked (emphasis on sacked) for financial mis-management, which has cost the economy substantially more.

2) Please show statistically where the private sector is exactly twice as efficient at providing ALL public sector services, otherwise it's again just something else you've made up off the top of your head.

In fact, on reflection don't bother. I think it's pretty safe to disregard anything you come out with non-football related as well as football related now.

[Thinwhiteduke]

Madmick I'm not sure you can handle the truth but lets live in hope. I pay over £200 a month for my pension. From April it will be over £300 if the government gets its way. I have had a pay freeze for the last two years and apparently will get no more than 1%(and could be less) per year for the next 4 years. The way my pension is calculated will also change so that I get less. As a teacher I can retire(on a much reduced pension) at 60 or get a full pension (linked to number of years I have been teaching)at 65. The government keep on about life expectancy going up but they will never tell you that this is not the case with teachers. A teacher who retires at 60 has an average life expectancy. A teacher who retires at 65 on average dies at 68. They want teachers to carry on working until 68. Well that's a very clever way to ensure you never have to pay out. Do you want someone teaching your kids or grandchildren at 68 anyway? Also older public sector workers in jobs will block younger getting jobs thus increasing youth unemployment.  A settlement was reached in 2007 that was both fair to the public and to the public sector. When you take inflation into consideration 48 Billion more has been paid into the teachers pension scheme since it started than has ever been taken out. The pension raid is nothing more than a stealth tax. All the public sector pensions with the exception of the armed forces pension are fully funded.Then again I don't begrudge the pensions our brave armed forces get. Times are hard but the current government tells one lie after another. Teachers can receive a full pension after 30-40 years depending on when they started teaching as long as they are also retirement age. MP's get a full pension after 15 years not to mention various other perks.Are we truly all in this together? If the MP's accepted what they are offering me I would agree reluctantly to what is being suggested. Yes teachers do get lots of holidays but what you don't realise is we only get paid for the days we teach and that pay is then averaged out through the year.Besides which I work through most of mine (with the general exception of the summer holidays). I am also up most days well past midnight marking and planning. The Government could easily raise the money that is needed by cutting over a longer period of time and by tightening up on tax avoidance of the mega rich. Also remember that bankers got us into this mess and have a certain moral responsibility to get us out. Try looking at this website http://robinhoodtax.org/      It is easier for the Government just to target middle Britain- the nurses and teachers who they didn't think would strike. The pay in the public sector in general does not match up with professionals in the private sector. A decent pension is seen as a trade off for accepting lower annual pay when negotiations take place. Remember your roots. I'd rather strike for my rights than be a scab. Anyway although I could go on I think I've written enough.

Teacher? Really? I sincerely hope you are not an English Teacher.

Maybe you should be paid less regardless for your serious lack of appreciation of the paragraph??

Please assure me that you don't teach within the DN5 / DN6 area.

[Filo]

Observation is not your strong point is it TWD? A clue is in his user name

[madmick50]

2) Please show statistically where the private sector is exactly twice as efficient at providing ALL public sector services, otherwise it's again just something else you've made up off the top of your head.

Anyone who has has worked in the public sector or knows anyone in the public sector who is honest knows that this is a fact. Not in all services but certainly in some.

[madmick50]

T

eacher? Really? I sincerely hope you are not an English Teacher.

I also hope that he's not a maths teacher.

[vaya]

2) Please show statistically where the private sector is exactly twice as efficient at providing ALL public sector services, otherwise it's again just something else you've made up off the top of your head.

Anyone who has has worked in the public sector or knows anyone in the public sector who is honest knows that this is a fact. You sound like someone who has only ever worked in the public sector and hasn't got a clue about working life in the real world. In fact if Macdonalds ran the public sector I reckon you'd have 1 person doing the work of 3!

So your arguement hinges on \"...this is a fact\" It's much in the way of defence is it? Perhaps if you typed 'fact' in capitals it'd carry more weight? Maybe a larger font? Have you considered a career in international diplomacy? I can see you resolving be the Arab-Israeli conflict at the drop of a fact.

I've only comparatively recently moved into the public sector, having worked entirely in the private sector before that.  Having been exposed to the private sector and (according to your searing analytical model) I should be imbued with the kind of workplace nouse only previously seen in Sir John Harvey Jones.

Subsequently I should now be able to do the job of two people, which short of developing some kind of multiple personality disorder, I assure you is unlikely to happen.

Sadly, as time goes on it's becoming apparent that the only difference between yourself and Ricardo Montalban is the lack of a height-restricted assistant.

[madmick50]

I've only comparatively recently moved into the public sector,

Shouldn't be long before you realise what a cushy life you've now got with no fear of being sacked.

[streatham dave]

Sorry for not getting back sooner. Firstly I am not an English teacher. Secondly I think you will find that paragraphing is a convention that tends not to be used on computer forums such as this. I thought a few of you might appreciate at least seeing a truthful overview of things from a teacher. Anyway I've said my piece. Lets get back to supporting Rovers rather than politics.

[DRFC-PERKINS]

I've only comparatively recently moved into the public sector,

Shouldn't be long before you realise what a cushy life you've now got with no fear of being sacked.

I work for the NHS and there is nothing 'cushy' about a 6 month temp contract.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I've only comparatively recently moved into the public sector,

Shouldn't be long before you realise what a cushy life you've now got with no fear of being sacked.

Just because your body can do the work of two mouths by talking out of more than one orifice at the same time doesn't make it a rule than can be applied to everyone.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Oh MadMick, you don't half talk some crap.

I've worked in both sectors. I'll tell you now that I have never in my entire life worked harder than I did as junior lecturer at a University. 60+ hour weeks were the norm (paid for 35 of course, no overtime). And, as I've said elsewhere, the graduates I was turning out frequently got better salaries than I did, even though I was 10 years older than them, better qualified and highly experienced.

Compare that to my time working as an engineer in a private company - 37 hour week. Start at 08:45. Leave at 17:15 on the dot. Paid overtime for anything further and for weekend working. Regular bonuses when the company did well.

The competition for positions and promotion in public sector academia is ferocious. I'd regularly be working well past midnight just to keep up and I'll tell you something else - if I e-mailed a work colleague about work at 1am, there'd be a 50% chance I'd get a reply within minutes. Those colleagues were some of the very brightest and hardest working people you could ever wish to meet.

If private sector workers were twice as efficient as that, we'd be the richest country in the world by far.

Grow up. There are slackers and hard workers in both sectors.

[madmick50]

I've worked in both sectors. I'll tell you now that I have never in my entire life worked harder than I did as junior lecturer at a University.

You must be the exception that proves the rule.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I've worked in both sectors. I'll tell you now that I have never in my entire life worked harder than I did as junior lecturer at a University.

You must be the exception that proves the rule.

And those people he'd e-mail at 1am...they're just exceptions too?

[madmick50]

And those people he'd e-mail at 1am...they're just exceptions too?

Lets get a grip. Everyone knows that the public sector is cushy compared to the private sector.

[RedJ]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bXPu5snblqg[/video]

[RedJ]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bXPu5snblqg&CMP=EMCSOCEML657%25%25__AdditionalEmailAttribute1[/video]

[RedJ]

5th time lucky..

Interesting viewing.

(www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXPu5snblqg)

[vaya]

I've only comparatively recently moved into the public sector,

Shouldn't be long before you realise what a cushy life you've now got with no fear of being sacked.

That the best you can do - surely by definition you'd have come up with two answers?

[madmick50]

Interesting viewing.

Only if you're a leftie socialist. It's 13 years of Labour and in particular Gordon Brown that has got us in this mess. He should be shot. People need to cop themselves on and never allow the socialists any where near the levers of power ever again.

[vaya]

Interesting viewing.

Only if you're a leftie socialist. It's 13 years of Labour and in particular Gordon Brown that has got us in this mess. He should be shot. People need to cop themselves on and never allow the socialists any where near the levers of power ever again.

Hilarous. There's a pantomime missing a villan somewhere.

Sorry and all that Mick, I just can't take you seriously. I doubt you even believe what you say yourself by now. Cup of tea time I think.

[RedJ]

Interesting viewing.

Only if you're a leftie socialist. It's 13 years of Labour and in particular Gordon Brown that has got us in this mess. He should be shot. People need to cop themselves on and never allow the socialists any where near the levers of power ever again.

That I am. But people still need to know this.

So you're saying he was wrong to fix Maggie's mess? \"Oh, sorry guys, we were very bad people to give you all these new schools and hospitals!\" I don't think so. The system's crashing again - you say we should \"never allow the socialists any where near the levers of power ever again\" but the capitalists haven't done a very f**king good job either..

That said - New Labour? socialist?

[vaya]

That's what tipped it for me as well. Not a clue.

[Filo]

We`ll see what \"call me Dave\" stands for when the UK gets swallowed up by the Franco-German empire!

[RedJ]

We`ll see what \"call me Dave\" stands for when the UK gets swallowed up by the Franco-German empire!

I can't see guile in any of his action so far, so until fuhrer notice, I don't expect any change.

[Filo]

We`ll see what \"call me Dave\" stands for when the UK gets swallowed up by the Franco-German empire!

I can't see guile in any of his action so far, so until fuhrer notice, I don't expect any change.

One inkling of treaty change to UK`s detriment should trigger a referendum, I bet it does n`t though, they can`t risk upsetting rent boy Clegg can they?