Brexit Negotiations

[Hounslowrover]

We are fortunate to be in a trading bloc that can counter Trump's protectionism. Once out, we will have no clout against his trade deals, utter madness.

[Pancho Regan]

Trump being aggressive and belligerent at the G7 Summit;

He suggests Russia should be welcomed back, to make a G8;

Boris Johnson being secretly recorded tonight stating that Trump would make a better job than May of negotiating Brexit;

Europe on the back foot in the face of US trade sanctions due to lack of unity;

We are going to hell in a hand cart.

[hoolahoop]

Trump being aggressive and belligerent at the G7 Summit;

He suggests Russia should be welcomed back, to make a G8;

Boris Johnson being secretly recorded tonight stating that Trump would make a better job than May of negotiating Brexit;

Europe on the back foot in the face of US trade sanctions due to lack of unity;

We are going to hell in a hand cart.

We are but still our leaders ( joke) and many of our people remain delusional. I watch Question Time each week and wonder where/ when  the argument for remaining in the EU will come from the audience . It doesn't seem to matter how pro-EU the town is the camera still seems to zoom into the most vehement " leaver " in the audience for lo and behold they get picked out by Dimbleby to spout out more of their ' Mail inspired '  (n)utter rubbish. He can be relied on to do it week in week out !

I swear they could do one in Gibraltar and the audience would be packed to the rafters with white 50 + year old bald- headed  males clutching their Rees- Smug  amulets chanting " Brexit means Brexit " for all their worth.

 Indeed " we are going to hell in a handcart "

[Glyn_Wigley]

Trump being aggressive and belligerent at the G7 Summit;

He suggests Russia should be welcomed back, to make a G8;

Boris Johnson being secretly recorded tonight stating that Trump would make a better job than May of negotiating Brexit;

Europe on the back foot in the face of US trade sanctions due to lack of unity;

We are going to hell in a hand cart.

Even May would do a better job if she had the economic strength of the US to bully others with. I'd like to see Trump try the same tactics without it and see how far he gets...

PS Funny how Boris says that when he seems to be trying to make himself come across like Trump more and more...

[drfchound]

Not being a political expert I keep out of this thread but it strikes me that for the people who are involved in the Brexit negotiations, well they face an almost impossible task in trying to get us a decent deal.

Whatever they do is deemed to be wrong by their detractors.
A chance for political points scoring.

It is kind of like being involved in a car crash, then berating the emergency services for not doing their jobs properly when they come to help you.

You dont want to be in the car crash in the first place of course but there you are.

The people we should be pointing the finger of blame at are the voters who put us in this position.

[wilts rover]

I stopped watching Question Time (and Newsnight) a long time ago - its just propoganda for a particular view the BBC want to push. But I do listen to a lot of the radio phone-ins and yes there are a lot of angry Brexiteers out there. And you can see why.

This latest backstop proposal, which you notice the EU has problems with but has not outright rejected. It essentially says that if nothing else can be agreed - the whole of the UK will stay in the customs union and (parts of) the single market. Why would the EU want to negotiate anything less than that?

They have been done up like 'Kippers. Welcome to the Hotel California.

https://www.politico.eu/article/how-brexiteers-lost-control-of-brexit/

[Ldr]

Not being a political expert I keep out of this thread but it strikes me that for the people who are involved in the Brexit negotiations, well they face an almost impossible task in trying to get us a decent deal.

Whatever they do is deemed to be wrong by their detractors.
A chance for political points scoring.

It is kind of like being involved in a car crash, then berating the emergency services for not doing their jobs properly when they come to help you.

You dont want to be in the car crash in the first place of course but there you are.

The people we should be pointing the finger of blame at are the voters who put us in this position.

Thats very judgemental Hound if I may say so and just a little arrogant. Have you every considered it may turn out to be a wise choice (it may not but seems you haven't even considered it)

[drfchound]

Not being a political expert I keep out of this thread but it strikes me that for the people who are involved in the Brexit negotiations, well they face an almost impossible task in trying to get us a decent deal.

Whatever they do is deemed to be wrong by their detractors.
A chance for political points scoring.

It is kind of like being involved in a car crash, then berating the emergency services for not doing their jobs properly when they come to help you.

You dont want to be in the car crash in the first place of course but there you are.

The people we should be pointing the finger of blame at are the voters who put us in this position.

Thats very judgemental Hound if I may say so and just a little arrogant. Have you every considered it may turn out to be a wise choice (it may not but seems you haven't even considered it)

Again, as a self declared non expert, yes, I agree it may be a good thing in the long run.
I don’t know either way, but then again, nor does anyone else.
We will just have to wait and see.

I am not sure which part of my post you see as arrogant.
I was simply putting my take on what I see and hear on the tv when whatever is said about the negotiations, someone pops up and Pooh Pooh’s it and tells us why it is not right, but generally without telling us what would be right.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Not being a political expert I keep out of this thread but it strikes me that for the people who are involved in the Brexit negotiations, well they face an almost impossible task in trying to get us a decent deal.

Whatever they do is deemed to be wrong by their detractors.
A chance for political points scoring.

It is kind of like being involved in a car crash, then berating the emergency services for not doing their jobs properly when they come to help you.

You dont want to be in the car crash in the first place of course but there you are.

The people we should be pointing the finger of blame at are the voters who put us in this position.

Almost right Hound. Except that the people responsible for negotiating the deal (Davis, Johnson, Fox) were three of the most vociferous ones in the Referendum campaign telling us that negotiating a deal with the EU would be easy.

They deserve the stick they are getting. And 100 times more.

Somehow, the most odious little f**ker of the lot of them, Gove, has got away with facing his responsibility. I’d have him buggered for all eternity by the three headed hound of Hell if I had my way.

[SydneyRover]

This absolutely takes the cake:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-nigel-farage-theresa-may-uk-worse-off-tough-brussels-a8390796.html

Farage and Cameron should go into the wrecking business.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I thought that tosspot would rear his head again this weekend.

The intellectual vacuousness of the Brexit tub-thumpers is spectacularly depressing. They continually harp on about needing a “vision” for post-Brexit Britain but they never EVER propose a vision. Because they know there isn’t one that won’t leave us significantly poorer and weaker. What that t**t is doing is preparing the way for post-Brexit blame. In two years time, when our economy is tanking because of him and his like leading us into voting for a disaster, he’ll claim that the real problem is that May et al didn’t have a vision and everything would have been alright if we did.

I hope the bas**rd rots in Hell.

[idler]

You can't just blame someone for not having a policy if you don't have one yourself. Of course it keeps him in the news.

[Not Now Kato]

Not being a political expert I keep out of this thread but it strikes me that for the people who are involved in the Brexit negotiations, well they face an almost impossible task in trying to get us a decent deal.

Whatever they do is deemed to be wrong by their detractors.
A chance for political points scoring.

It is kind of like being involved in a car crash, then berating the emergency services for not doing their jobs properly when they come to help you.

You dont want to be in the car crash in the first place of course but there you are.

The people we should be pointing the finger of blame at are the voters who put us in this position.

Thats very judgemental Hound if I may say so and just a little arrogant. Have you every considered it may turn out to be a wise choice (it may not but seems you haven't even considered it)

It's also very accurate.  Pray tell me, HOW will 'leave' turn out to be a wise choice?  I've seen nothing but rhetoric from leavers so far, meanwhile jobs are leaving the UK and the lot of the worse off in the country, (a large proportion of whom voted leave), are becoming worse off; the situation re the Irish border is no where nearer a solution than when we started, and the deal that was to be so easy as to take no more than ten minutes has hardly progressed at all!
 
The people of this country deserve the BREXIT they think they voted for!  But they won't be happy with it!

[drfchound]

I thought that tosspot would rear his head again this weekend.

The intellectual vacuousness of the Brexit tub-thumpers is spectacularly depressing. They continually harp on about needing a “vision” for post-Brexit Britain but they never EVER propose a vision. Because they know there isn’t one that won’t leave us significantly poorer and weaker. What that t**t is doing is preparing the way for post-Brexit blame. In two years time, when our economy is tanking because of him and his like leading us into voting for a disaster, he’ll claim that the real problem is that May et al didn’t have a vision and everything would have been alright if we did.

I hope the bas**rd rots in Hell.

Isn’t that more or less what I posted earlier, well without the last line.

[RedJ]

Not being a political expert I keep out of this thread but it strikes me that for the people who are involved in the Brexit negotiations, well they face an almost impossible task in trying to get us a decent deal.

Whatever they do is deemed to be wrong by their detractors.
A chance for political points scoring.

It is kind of like being involved in a car crash, then berating the emergency services for not doing their jobs properly when they come to help you.

You dont want to be in the car crash in the first place of course but there you are.

The people we should be pointing the finger of blame at are the voters who put us in this position.

Thats very judgemental Hound if I may say so and just a little arrogant. Have you every considered it may turn out to be a wise choice (it may not but seems you haven't even considered it)

It's also very accurate.  Pray tell me, HOW will 'leave' turn out to be a wise choice?  I've seen nothing but rhetoric from leavers so far, meanwhile jobs are leaving the UK and the lot of the worse off in the country, (a large proportion of whom voted leave), are becoming worse off; the situation re the Irish border is no where nearer a solution than when we started, and the deal that was to be so easy as to take no more than ten minutes has hardly progressed at all!
 
The people of this country deserve the BREXIT they think they voted for!  But they won't be happy with it!

Yeah but they're all too busy going ner ner we won get over it and singing Rule Britannia to actually think about any of that.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Oh.

f**king.

Dear.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/09/arron-banks-russia-brexit-meeting

The man who bankrolled Farage’s Brexit campaign was up to his b*llocks in Russian contacts.

Well. Who would have expected that?

Still. We took back control, eh?

[hoolahoop]

What a fecking mess - someone's going to jail here . Well done The Observer , that team deserve honours once we are through this mess and onto the other side, 

[idler]

Oh.

f**king.

Dear.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/09/arron-banks-russia-brexit-meeting

The man who bankrolled Farage’s Brexit campaign was up to his b*llocks in Russian contacts.

Well. Who would have expected that?

Still. We took back control, eh?

A good link Billy. I did end up chipping in a £5 donation to the guardian but it does make you wonder how much there is to come out.

[hoolahoop]

Oh.

f**king.

Dear.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/09/arron-banks-russia-brexit-meeting

The man who bankrolled Farage’s Brexit campaign was up to his b*llocks in Russian contacts.

Well. Who would have expected that?

Still. We took back control, eh?

A good link Billy. I did end up chipping in a £5 donation to the guardian but it does make you wonder how much there is to come out.

A  £5 well spent , I've found it a really interesting read these last couple of years . The forum , at times, seems to be inundated with rabid Corbynistas but that makes it all the more interesting.

[SydneyRover]

Britain needs a Royal Commission into Brexit, to examine all the players involved and to dig into the possible options open to make a deal with Europe and what the ramifications will be.

[Dutch Uncle]

Just look how successful Putin has been:

- Annex Crimea
- US strongly polarised and divided internally
- UK strongly polarised and divided internally
- US detaching itself from main allies (G7/Trade, Iran deal, Climate Change, Middle East)
- UK detaching itself from main allies (EU)

Then as a bonus the preferred leader of the US isolating themselves even more by wanting to invite Russians back to G7

Most successful leader ever?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Dutch

Unquestionably. Trouble is, what is the endgame that he’s leading the world to? The world that he’s crafting, with democracy undermined, demagogues who dispense with facts promoted and divisions stoked up is not stable. I’d put decent money on some Western country which has been a stable democracy, collapsing into civil war over the next decade.


Or worse...

[wilts rover]

That's one way of looking at it Dutch - another is we are now seeing the failure, fallout and consequences of global capitalism. Maybe Putin enabled the campaigns but it was the people of the UK & US who voted for them.

If you want someone to blame, Cameron & Clinton would be nearer the top of my list.

[wilts rover]

Is there an endgame? Doesn't history go in cycles? Actions and consequences?

I can foresee climate change leading to environmental disaster across the globe before I can foresee a civil war in a western democracy - but thats probably just me.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Aye Wilts. Because we don’t blame Putin do we? Because that deflects attention.

[The Red Baron]

That's one way of looking at it Dutch - another is we are now seeing the failure, fallout and consequences of global capitalism. Maybe Putin enabled the campaigns but it was the people of the UK & US who voted for them.

If you want someone to blame, Cameron & Clinton would be nearer the top of my list.

I don't disagree with the main thrust of your argument not do I seek to defend either of them. But I think the blame goes much deeper than Cameron and Clinton (Hill or Bill btw?)

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wilts. Of course history goes in cycles. Just not always smooth ones. Berlin and Hiroshima 1945 were rather abrupt changes of circumstance. The term “endgame” for Hitler and for Japanese militarism is perfectly apt in those circumstances.

[SydneyRover]

The main instigators of Brexit slink off using weasel words changing their stances and leave Britons to deal with the mess with a government you couldn't trust to buy a round of drinks without
it closing down before they got to the bar. Instead of governing the UK for all and bringing everyone together they have divided, alienated and ensured that the country is just/almost as bad as when the miners were striking. Remind me which party were in charge then?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/10/arron-banks-leaked-emails-what-do-they-show

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1006193583567835137

So, the man who brought you Brexit is going to use his programme to interview the two people who funded his campaign about their links with Russia and the extent to which Russia paid them to fund him, and why they spent two years forgetting to tell the truth about the number of times they met with the Russian Ambassador.

That should sort it all out. I’m sure it’s just an honest misunderstanding.

Meanwhile, the journalist who has spent the past two years digging into this story was stonewalled when she asked to go on Farage’s programme yesterday.

https://mobile.twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1005779842661605376

[selby]

  Hounslow, the USA, and Russia have got all the EU including us in the cusp of their hand.
  Russia provides the gas  for quite  a few continental countries including Germany, the price of oil and Gas is going up.
  The state of the biggest banks in Germany, Greece, Spain and most notably Italy means that the investment banks in the US can bring them to their knees if they wanted to.
  We have gone from the only country in western Europe with a surfeit of energy to being an importer. If the Us stopped wood pellets to Drax thats 11% of our energy requirements gone.
  I think things will go OK with the US and settle down, but don't dismiss the damage to Europe if it gets nasty.
 P.S.
      The oil is the main reason Scotland will not get independence quickly, in fifty years let them go, mountains are no good to anyone except on holiday.