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Author Topic: Brexit Negotiations  (Read 307086 times)

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selby

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1470 on June 15, 2018, 06:05:22 pm by selby »
  When you think about it, that's why the Scots want independence, we are no use to them any more, the money box is getting empty.



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RedJ

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1471 on June 15, 2018, 06:34:52 pm by RedJ »
No use to them other than the massive fiscal transfers from UK gov. to Scot gov. then?

Glyn_Wigley

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1472 on June 15, 2018, 07:15:17 pm by Glyn_Wigley »
   RJ, it's not a new idea, and the Romans did it with a wall he he. When the oil goes there is nothing worth keeping, and the locals don't like us.

Not been on for a while, I see you still write the most ridiculous comments though  - just f**k off part of the Union because they have outlived their usefulness do we do that with N.Ireland too ? In the dark recesses of your mind, I'm sure you have other areas of the UK you are ready to hive off too the South West, the North East perhaps even dare I say it Yorkshire ?

I'd f**k the Lancastrians off in a heartbeat if we could, to be fair. :laugh:

But if Lancashire wasn't there, what'd keep the rain off Yorkshire? :silly:

hoolahoop

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1473 on June 16, 2018, 07:54:28 am by hoolahoop »
Hoola, Westminster, and make all the MP's go with it, by the way where do you live?
   You take things too seriously, I don't even have to bait the hook.

Not at all because this is a serious subject . In  August we are  going to fly with our daughter to Copenhagen where she will then study for a year on the Erasmus + programme for her international degree. She needs health cover and enough money to live on with our help all at these poor exchange rates. On top of that , we will have to travel over to see that she is ok and as I have lots of medication for my cancer treatment ; I have a vested interest in health and insurance cover.  Now I know that I'm covered albeit, at a higher cost rate than normal, if we go into a formal transition covering flights , insurance and health . However if these talks break down , then we are all at risk - you see Selby all this sharpens the mind . Because this isn't funny although I grant that some of the antics of the Government and Parliament are amusing - to see and hear holders of great offices of State bickering like schoolgirls ( apologies to schoolgirls here ) can be highly amusing as are the subsequent discussions on here.

As we all, as a family, currently make at least 4-6 ( yes 12-18 In total )  trips over various borders in the EU each year we can't help but be concerned by the talk of cliff edges ; we should be don't you think  ?

 I know of quite a few other forum members that need that ease of access, cover and of course reasonably stable cost elements for  their arrangements too I.e. every time the exchange rate falls even slightly the £ 000's each year we need or choose o spend abroad is adversely affected.

This is THE  worst decision this country has made over the last couple of hundred years and still I am yet to see the positives that outweigh the dozens of negatives not only economically ( yes I realise there is money to be made on the stock market/ currency etc ) but socially , scientifically ( Galileo etc ) and morally ( environment controls ) .

Finally you asked where I live - in Doncaster of course. Did you want to meet for a beer as I certainly wouldn't mind more help with my investments to mitigate for my future losses ? Perhaps you might think that Doncastrians have little need of the EU or think perhaps the area was damaged by the EU or even that we don't need to travel  for  work, leisure or study abroad ? I would be interested why you have asked that particular question and hope you realise that for all the amusement there is in this exercise there is also a very human element and costs involved in the execution of Brexit ( whatever that means ) .

Incidentally I realise you are playing devil's advocate and enjoy yanking peoples chain from time to time . That's all fine and dandy and I often chuckle at your posts but still I hope you realise why this is a very serious subject to me and others and probably for yourself if the truth is known.

There you go lots of personal stuff I would rather not have shared but hopefully that will help you to understand why I personally feel so strongly about this subject. Im sure if you asked you would find forum members with alternative reasons ....

Of course if I lived/ retired abroad or intended to as I do shortly then you can see this would then involve the exchange of £ 100,000s that then really sharpens the mind as does the potential lack of health cover given my situation. In other words selby , all we  have worked for, for over 40 years is at risk.....
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 08:30:29 am by hoolahoop »

hoolahoop

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1474 on June 16, 2018, 08:47:21 am by hoolahoop »
   RJ, it's not a new idea, and the Romans did it with a wall he he. When the oil goes there is nothing worth keeping, and the locals don't like us.

Not been on for a while, I see you still write the most ridiculous comments though  - just f**k off part of the Union because they have outlived their usefulness do we do that with N.Ireland too ? In the dark recesses of your mind, I'm sure you have other areas of the UK you are ready to hive off too the South West, the North East perhaps even dare I say it Yorkshire ?

I'd f**k the Lancastrians off in a heartbeat if we could, to be fair. :laugh:

But if Lancashire wasn't there, what'd keep the rain off Yorkshire? :silly:

Nah with Selby on this one f**k Lancastrians off , it would be worth a few more inches of rain each year

Hounslowrover

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1475 on June 16, 2018, 12:09:38 pm by Hounslowrover »
On a serious note here are two interesting quotes:

" I am absolutely clear that I cannot countenance parliament being able to overturn the will of the British people". Theresa May this week ai PMQs.

" There is no possibility for parliamentary interference to obliterate and render ineffective the execution of the nation's will".  Joseph Goebbels in May 1933.

So much for regaining the sovereignty of Parliament!

hoolahoop

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1476 on June 16, 2018, 12:32:33 pm by hoolahoop »
On a serious note here are two interesting quotes:

" I am absolutely clear that I cannot countenance parliament being able to overturn the will of the British people". Theresa May this week ai PMQs.

" There is no possibility for parliamentary interference to obliterate and render ineffective the execution of the nation's will".  Joseph Goebbels in May 1933.

So much for regaining the sovereignty of Parliament!


The similarity is very worrying as is this massive shift to the Right - taking political advantage of all- comers who currently seem to be tied up with " the will of the 37% " preservation of their own seats and internal wrangling .

My MP  Caroline Flint seems to be completely unaware  of the dangers to all her constituents whilst bleating " I voted for Remain but it's the " will " binding and blinding me from the fallout of this clusterf**k.  Does she fear for her seat , where 92% of her British - born constituents are either having all their jobs taken away from them by an influx of '000s of imaginary people under - cutting their hourly rates ?
So much so that she  votes WITH the Government ! Flint if you or people you know ever come on these boards then i suggest you open your eyes and see what EU  not Government money continues to do for the area. Everywhere you go there are still EU Re- Development boards stuck in the ground !!
Hounslow - I presume you are based somewhere near Heathrow but I wish you could see this - the Government has done sweet fa for decades and people here vote for money to be spent on myriads of projects in the South-East !
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 12:39:14 pm by hoolahoop »

Hounslowrover

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1477 on June 16, 2018, 01:02:39 pm by Hounslowrover »
Hoola, you're right abut the lack of investment projects in the north, I'm sure this was some of the reason why people voted no to the EU, everything goes to the south east, though I've heard some Londoners say that the south east is the economic driver for the country, so why not. 

On another point, Caroline Flint used to attend the Labour Party meetings in Brentford and Isleworth when I used to go, she hardly spoke at these meetings and lands a safe seat up north.

bpoolrover

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1478 on June 16, 2018, 01:27:17 pm by bpoolrover »
For you hoola yes it is a bad decision but many people who won’t be going abroad and have no investment don’t think the same, parts of Blackpool are in the poorest in the country and most jobs are taken by polish Romanians etc. With little chance of any change, what would you say to them people why it’s the worst choice, while it is certainly not the only reason it is 1 of the reasons, it might not make any difference anyway but they certainly didn’t gain from being in the eu and won’t be any worse off out of it
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 01:32:40 pm by bpoolrover »

Not Now Kato

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1479 on June 16, 2018, 10:45:19 pm by Not Now Kato »
Bpool.  Have you stopped to think why so many of the low paid jobs in your area are taken by Eastern Europeans?  Is it because local employers prefer to employ Eastern Europeans?  Or is it because local UK people won't do those jobs for the pay offered?
 
Leaving the EU won't persuade UK people to do the jobs they won't do now, so nothing changes except jobs that bring wealth to an area and increase taxes paid disappear and the area is the worse for it.  If you think Blackpool is a poor area now just wait till we leave the EU.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1480 on June 16, 2018, 11:23:58 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
I understand the argument.
Three facts.
Times are hard.
Wages are depressed.
There’s a lot of foreigners around.

Conclusion: Times are hard and wages are depressed because there’s a lot of foreigners around. So if we vote to take back control, things at the very worst can’t get any worse.

Except things will get worse. A lot worse. Not a big shock, but a long, slow, lingering decline compared to the rest of the world.

You might not notice it Bpool. But the next generation will.

bpoolrover

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1481 on June 17, 2018, 02:03:01 am by bpoolrover »
Kato your right to a point I worked at the pleasure beach on games stalls so was not employed by the pleasure beach, there main aim was to employ polish who would work 7 days a week 12 hours a day, in blackpool a seansonal town this is standard practice, soon as the season has finished they go home to Poland, great lads get on well with them but is that right?

Glyn_Wigley

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1482 on June 17, 2018, 07:21:16 am by Glyn_Wigley »
On a serious note here are two interesting quotes:

" I am absolutely clear that I cannot countenance parliament being able to overturn the will of the British people". Theresa May this week ai PMQs.

" There is no possibility for parliamentary interference to obliterate and render ineffective the execution of the nation's will".  Joseph Goebbels in May 1933.

So much for regaining the sovereignty of Parliament!


Hmph. When they make a film about Brexit (a black comedy, naturally), those two quotes give me the idea for what it should be called:

'Triumph Of The Will Of The People'.

Glyn_Wigley

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1483 on June 17, 2018, 07:24:51 am by Glyn_Wigley »
Kato your right to a point I worked at the pleasure beach on games stalls so was not employed by the pleasure beach, there main aim was to employ polish who would work 7 days a week 12 hours a day, in blackpool a seansonal town this is standard practice, soon as the season has finished they go home to Poland, great lads get on well with them but is that right?

Was there something stopping local people from doing exactly the same as the Polish were willing to do?

Sprotyrover

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1484 on June 17, 2018, 11:09:59 am by Sprotyrover »
Kato your right to a point I worked at the pleasure beach on games stalls so was not employed by the pleasure beach, there main aim was to employ polish who would work 7 days a week 12 hours a day, in blackpool a seansonal town this is standard practice, soon as the season has finished they go home to Poland, great lads get on well with them but is that right?

Was there something stopping local people from doing exactly the same as the Polish were willing to do?

Unfortunately some of our fellow citizens are too idle to work ,apparently the number of job vacancies in this country virtually match the unemployed. However there is the percentage who not conform and won't work. They make their money doing things that will if caught get them a hefty prison sentence,you also have a group of people who quite rightly think that an 80 hour week deserves 40 hours at an enhanced rate (and they are right) The Eastern European workers have slowed down because of the exchange rates and also why work an 80 hour week and get taxed at a higher rate when you can do 40 hours and get benefit payments to make up your crap wage.thats why we have multi occupancy houses,in Hexthorpe, Eastwood and Fir Vale,they come here and in order to save money to buy homes in Poland, Slovakia etc, they will rent a room, live minimally and use the system to make up their wages to save.
As a result we are exploiting the Foriegn workers and also our own workforce who have to compete with them.

bpoolrover

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1485 on June 17, 2018, 12:10:21 pm by bpoolrover »
Kato your right to a point I worked at the pleasure beach on games stalls so was not employed by the pleasure beach, there main aim was to employ polish who would work 7 days a week 12 hours a day, in blackpool a seansonal town this is standard practice, soon as the season has finished they go home to Poland, great lads get on well with them but is that right?
Yes places like the pleasure beach, wpo
Kato your right to a point I worked at the pleasure beach on games stalls so was not employed by the pleasure beach, there main aim was to employ polish who would work 7 days a week 12 hours a day, in blackpool a seansonal town this is standard practice, soon as the season has finished they go home to Poland, great lads get on well with them but is that right?

Was there something stopping local people from doing exactly the same as the Polish were willing to do?
Was there something stopping local people from doing exactly the same as the Polish were willing to do?
a lot of people don't want to work 90 hours a week Glynn they have families and lives bed

Glyn_Wigley

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1486 on June 17, 2018, 01:02:47 pm by Glyn_Wigley »
Kato your right to a point I worked at the pleasure beach on games stalls so was not employed by the pleasure beach, there main aim was to employ polish who would work 7 days a week 12 hours a day, in blackpool a seansonal town this is standard practice, soon as the season has finished they go home to Poland, great lads get on well with them but is that right?
Yes places like the pleasure beach, wpo
Kato your right to a point I worked at the pleasure beach on games stalls so was not employed by the pleasure beach, there main aim was to employ polish who would work 7 days a week 12 hours a day, in blackpool a seansonal town this is standard practice, soon as the season has finished they go home to Poland, great lads get on well with them but is that right?

Was there something stopping local people from doing exactly the same as the Polish were willing to do?
Was there something stopping local people from doing exactly the same as the Polish were willing to do?
a lot of people don't want to work 90 hours a week Glynn they have families and lives bed

If that's their choice they have no right to moan about people who do choose to do it 'stealing their jobs', wherever they are from. Blackpool is a seasonal employment town, what other sort of work do they expect to get there?

bpoolrover

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1487 on June 17, 2018, 02:01:42 pm by bpoolrover »
Why should people have to work 90 hours a week glynn,they have no choice but to live in a seasonal town thou so it makes no difference what they expect

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1488 on June 17, 2018, 02:26:06 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Bpool

I agree 100% with you about those working conditions.

But. You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that Brexit is going to put that right. What the Brexiters want is to get out of the aspects of the EU that protect workers’ rights. This Govt could stop the sort of exploitation that you describe because it is against EU regulations. But they don’t enforce it. Do you think they’ll put an arm around UK workers after Brexit?

Glyn_Wigley

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1489 on June 17, 2018, 03:12:09 pm by Glyn_Wigley »
Why should people have to work 90 hours a week glynn,they have no choice but to live in a seasonal town thou so it makes no difference what they expect

That's funny. I had the choice to leave the seasonal town I grew up in. It must be really bad in Blackpool if the EU has taken that choice away from people.

bpoolrover

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1490 on June 17, 2018, 03:13:35 pm by bpoolrover »
Your just looking to argue, where when they have no jobs and no money would you like them to move? Are you going put a few up at your place

Glyn_Wigley

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1491 on June 17, 2018, 03:15:44 pm by Glyn_Wigley »
Your just looking to argue, where when they have no jobs and no money would you like them to move? Are you going put a few up at your place

There are jobs if they want to earn money. Do you really think leaving the EU is going to change the nature of what jobs are on offer? Really??

In fact, it's the EU that want to limit the number of hours people have to work. Leaving the EU is really going to help, isn't it?

Oh, and I managed to get out of the seasonal town I grew up in by finding a job elsewhere - in Doncaster, as it happens. In the 1980s. When unemployment was over three million. Are you telling me it's harder to do that now than it was then?
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 03:39:27 pm by Glyn_Wigley »

wilts rover

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1492 on June 17, 2018, 10:04:41 pm by wilts rover »
Interesting news.

Apparently May made a big point of the Brexit dividend in her NHS funding announcement (which is clearly untrue and will be funded by tax rises & borrowing) because she wanted to placate Boris & her Brexiteers before she gives in to the EU & makes some major concessions ahead of the June summit.

Interesting few days ahead then.

Filo

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1493 on June 17, 2018, 10:48:44 pm by Filo »
I read somewhere today that Tory rebels are prepared to bring the government down after their agreement last week to avoid a government defeat was ammended later

RedJ

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1494 on June 17, 2018, 10:53:09 pm by RedJ »
Doubt they'll have the balls.

bpoolrover

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1495 on June 17, 2018, 11:04:01 pm by bpoolrover »
Your just looking to argue, where when they have no jobs and no money would you like them to move? Are you going put a few up at your place

There are jobs if they want to earn money. Do you really think leaving the EU is going to change the nature of what jobs are on offer? Really??

In fact, it's the EU that want to limit the number of hours people have to work. Leaving the EU is really going to help, isn't it?

Oh, and I managed to get out of the seasonal town I grew up in by finding a job elsewhere - in Doncaster, as it happens. In the 1980s. When unemployment was over three million. Are you telling me it's harder to do that now than it was then?
[/quote yes it’s a lot harder years ago you could find a flat very easily and needed hardly any deposit, now they want at least a month rent in advance and deposit of the same again, no doubt you were a single guy with no worries so you could just up and leave, your other point is probably not but as they have nothing to lose it’s worth ago

The Red Baron

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1496 on June 18, 2018, 07:36:55 am by The Red Baron »
I read somewhere today that Tory rebels are prepared to bring the government down after their agreement last week to avoid a government defeat was ammended later

I think the original amendment about a "meaningful vote" in Parliament has been resubmitted in the Lords which means it will probably come back to the Commons. As the Tory rebels didn't feel they got what they wanted they may vote against the Government this time. The question then is whether the Government is prepared to up the ante and make it a vote of confidence. Given May's record of avoiding or delaying showdowns, whether with Parliament or the EU itself, I think that is unlikely.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1497 on June 18, 2018, 08:51:53 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Last week in Parliament was a shambles, the line of which I have never seen.

May had to offer something to get inside the Tory MPs who (quite rightly) want Parliament to have the final say on the Brexit deal.

But she couldn’t offer them anything because that would upset the rabid Brexit-supporting MPs who she relies on to keep her in position.

So the Govt told the first lot they would offer concessions. Then when they’d win the vote, they publicly announced that they’d offered nothing of any substance.

There is no way out of this nightmare for May. And something has to give, soon.

Not Now Kato

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1498 on June 18, 2018, 10:58:40 am by Not Now Kato »
There is no way out of this nightmare for May. And something has to give, soon.

Indeed, it just gets worse for her....
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEnb0_86YdQ
 

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Brexit Negotiations
« Reply #1499 on June 18, 2018, 11:37:54 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Corbyn, of course, is a lucky chap in that he’s not having to deal with the nuts and bolts of Brecit, because his own position wouldn’t stand scrutiny.

He’s been dragged kicking and screaming by Kier Starmer into accepting some form of customs union, but he’s insisting that we must be out of the Single Market. Yet, somehow, magically, he’s claiming that we’ll be no worse off.


Shite times. We’re heading into a f**king disaster with neither side giving a vision on how to avoid it.

 

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