Brexit Negotiations

[Glyn_Wigley]

I presume this £20mil 'Brexit dividend' is supported by the economic reports that David Davis first claimed had been done, then claimed hadn't been done when someone had the temerity to ask to look at them. Have they suddenly found them down the back of the sofa?

[hoolahoop]

I presume this £20mil 'Brexit dividend' is supported by the economic reports that David Davis first claimed had been done, then claimed hadn't been done when someone had the temerity to ask to look at them. Have they suddenly found them down the back of the sofa?

This is getting farcical , why not just let Boris Johnson own Brexit as after all he seems to be calling all the shots.

Billy said earlier that this is heading for a disaster .....I certainly can't see a way out of it . I must admit though I'm just as mystified by the Labour position as others are . Yes they are in Opposition and playing that card but at the same time pushing to take over - they must hold a solid position and ensure that everyone knows exactly what it is . Labour politicians seem to be briefing just as much against the leadership as the Tories - it's ridiculous. A Government and an Opposition with battle lines drawn everywhere.

Incidentally watched the Tory MP Trevelyan earlier on the Daily " Tory " Politics - she was still peddling the " Brexit divishit " argument  it's pathetic and insulting to the general public.

[Filo]

I got to say, I voted leave, I don't regret it, but the way this has been handled by the complete idiots in charge, and the opposition has convinced me that we should just reset and start again. Any other time Mays career would have been finished, but somehow she manages to cling to power

[Glyn_Wigley]

I got to say, I voted leave, I don't regret it, but the way this has been handled by the complete idiots in charge, and the opposition has convinced me that we should just reset and start again. Any other time Mays career would have been finished, but somehow she manages to cling to power

She's clinging to power because all those wanting to knife her in the back want all the stench of Brexit to cling to her and not to them afterwards. Why do you think they don't want Parliament to have a vote on it - because then it'll be on public record that they voted for the sorry mess rather than take over from May with a clean slate and saying 'Nowt to do wiv me, mate'.

[Not Now Kato]

I got to say, I voted leave, I don't regret it, but the way this has been handled by the complete idiots in charge, and the opposition has convinced me that we should just reset and start again. Any other time Mays career would have been finished, but somehow she manages to cling to power

She's clinging to power because all those wanting to knife her in the back want all the stench of Brexit to cling to her and not to them afterwards. Why do you think they don't want Parliament to have a vote on it - because then it'll be on public record that they voted for the sorry mess rather than take over from May with a clean slate and saying 'Nowt to do wiv me, mate'.

Indeed.  The puzzlement is that somehow the MayBot is so stupid she can't see it herself.
 

[RedJ]

Or maybe she can but has no idea how to claw her way out of the situation and doesn't want to give up her position.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Or maybe she can but has no idea how to claw her way out of the situation and doesn't want to give up her position.

'Strong and stable'. Strong indecision and stable immobility!

[bpoolrover]

Bst no I don’t think brexit will
Fix anything, but brexit will
Make no difference to anyone who has very little money the only people brexit will
Affect either way are people
With at least abit of money

[bpoolrover]

It like voting tories or labour to the people with no money it makes no difference, tories put minimum wage up and let you earn more tax,if your on working tax credits like most low earners it makes no difference as once you earn so much they take it off your benefits, vote labour they will make it 10 pound a hour then they do the same, so no matter who you vote for you end up with the same amount of money

[hoolahoop]

It like voting tories or labour to the people with no money it makes no difference, tories put minimum wage up and let you earn more tax,if your on working tax credits like most low earners it makes no difference as once you earn so much they take it off your benefits, vote labour they will make it 10 pound a hour then they do the same, so no matter who you vote for you end up with the same amount of money

In which case there is never seems to be a reason for you to vote then ever. I'm left wondering whether you voted in the Referendum or for that matter any elections at all ?
You seem to have strong opinions for someone who is not affected by whatever economic programme is inflicted on them be it Labour/Tory. Why is it you believe in the " Alice in Wonderland " Brexit  nonsense put forward by Brexiters then ?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bst no I don’t think brexit will
Fix anything, but brexit will
Make no difference to anyone who has very little money the only people brexit will
Affect either way are people
With at least abit of money

You are in for a very, very big shock. You’ve clearly no idea the extent to which the EU has buttressed the economies of the poorer parts of this country. When that goes, do you think a Tory Govt will give a f**k about your area?

[Akinfenwa]

People should elect someone who does then. Isn't that how it works?

[albie]

Is it not time to bring some folk to account;
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/16/arron-banks-nigel-farage-leave-brexit-russia-connection?CMP=share_btn_tw

Now what is treason these days?

Is it acceptable to undermine the basic democratic process to secure the outcome you advocate?
When is this shit going to end.

[Glyn_Wigley]

The shit never ends, only the depth varies.

[BillyStubbsTears]

People should elect someone who does then. Isn't that how it works?

Well aye. Except I doubt that the socio-economic state of the Fylde Coast will be on the minds of many voters in the Home Counties.

Whereas the socio-economic condition of areas of the EU that have been left behind has been very much on the minds of the EU Eurocrats for many years. Which is why we had a shit load of European money poured into South Yorkshire after it had been left to rot by Maggie.

And then we turned round and voted to take back control.

Odd, isn’t it?

[bpoolrover]

Well bst 67.5 percent voted leave in blackpool so not everyone shares your views

[hoolahoop]

Well bst 67.5 percent voted leave in blackpool so not everyone shares your views

Do you still believe that after all you have read on here that the decision to Leave was right ?

Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk

[Glyn_Wigley]

Well bst 67.5 percent voted leave in blackpool so not everyone shares your views

That is making the massive assumption that 67.5 per cent of Blackpool knows as much about the EU as BST but still disagree with him.

As I say, it's a massive assumption.

[RedJ]

Looks like the rebels shat it again.

[selby]

  Admitted off topic slightly, and ignoring Brexit, but in my 50yrs of actually voting ( I had to be 21 yrs old) I am hard pushed to think of anything good any Tory government has done for the Doncaster area, and very little for Yorkshire as a whole.
   Only parts of North Yorkshire and probably the Leeds area are significantly more prosperous than when I was a kid at school.

[The Red Baron]

Looks like the rebels shat it again.

I'm old enough to remember the shenanigans surrounding the votes on the Maastricht Treaty when the Major Government had a wafer-thin majority. In that instance the rebels were the Eurosceptics, but basically the same thing happened. Each time there was a crucial vote enough rebels were bought off with concessions and the Government eventually got its way.

Looks like history is repeating itself.

[selby]

  Yes TRB, and we were not deemed good enough to vote on that at all, we should demand a vote on it now, if only it seems to be the thing to do, and then the Lisbon treaty.

[The Red Baron]

  Yes TRB, and we were not deemed good enough to vote on that at all, we should demand a vote on it now, if only it seems to be the thing to do, and then the Lisbon treaty.

I actually think it was a pity that we never got a referendum on Maastricht.

It was the key EU treaty which moved the organisation towards more centralisation. I think there would have been an overwhelming vote against in the UK, but it wouldn't have meant we left the EU. The ball would have been back in the EU's court and they would have had to think again.

In comparison the Lisbon Treaty was quite a minor affair, but the Government of the time had promised a referendum and then reneged on that.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Not much anti-Maastricht sentiment in this 1991 poll TRB.

https://ems.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/poll.aspx?oItemId=2948

[hoolahoop]

Not much anti-Maastricht sentiment in this 1991 poll TRB.

https://ems.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/poll.aspx?oItemId=2948

Exactly on that basis , the pro- EU vote would have pissed it contrary to all the things you hear I.e. - " Well if we had been allowed a vote on Maastricht  ; we would have been long gone out of the EU " .

Perhaps on a vote based on lies and exaggerations , Russian money and Cambridge Analytica , AIQ, false electoral funding and expenditure ........they might well have been right.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Not much anti-Maastricht sentiment in this 1991 poll TRB.

https://ems.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/poll.aspx?oItemId=2948

Exactly on that basis , the pro- EU vote would have pissed it contrary to all the things you hear I.e. - " Well if we had been allowed a vote on Maastricht  ; we would have been long gone out of the EU " .

Perhaps on a vote based on lies and exaggerations , Russian money and Cambridge Analytica , AIQ, false electoral funding and expenditure ........they might well have been right.

There hadn't been the years of the constant drip, drip drip, of endless 'Barmy Brussels' bullshit headlines then either.

[MachoMadness]

  Admitted off topic slightly, and ignoring Brexit, but in my 50yrs of actually voting ( I had to be 21 yrs old) I am hard pushed to think of anything good any Tory government has done for the Doncaster area, and very little for Yorkshire as a whole.
   Only parts of North Yorkshire and probably the Leeds area are significantly more prosperous than when I was a kid at school.

Technically they're sponsoring the Rovers now!

[Glyn_Wigley]

Maybe 6 months since I posted on this Thread - was determined NOT to but speaking of Maastricht I am always reminded that the Vote finally finished all square

The (then) Speaker Betty Boothroyd MP for the Constituency of West Bromwich (a former Labour MP but "neutralised" by becoming Speaker) had to vote in favour of the Bill as is traditional / protocol

So if she could have voted conscience wise the Bil would have been defeated. Dont you just love Politics

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-maastricht-debate-former-mp-firm-in-casting-vote-the-speaker-rare-intervention-keeps-boothroyd-1486494.html

Bye for another 6 months

You really ought to read your own link. Boothroyd didn't vote in favour of the Bill, she voted against an Amendment to the Bill.

Nor does it say she voted against her own conscience at all.

Also, when they checked afterwards it was found that they had miscounted the votes and the Government had actually won by one vote, so there was no need for Boothroyd's casting vote anyway.

[selby]

  Billy, as I remember, the Treaty was passed without a big public discussion, it was put  through by the back door without much of a public discussion on it's merits, and certainly apart from one or two politicians of the time trying to publicise how it would affect us, it was certainly low key in the UK.
  Eire voted against it and then were threatened and had a revote as I remember, which they were told they would do until accepting it, or that was how it was publicised.
  No way was the effect Brussels would have on our laws etc. explained to the population.
    Can we have a vote to accept it now, if we have another vote on Brexit? and if not why not?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Someone was saying here the other day that Brexit will work out alright because businesses will make it work.

Aye. Businesses will obviously make it work. For them.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44570931