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Author Topic: New Kit  (Read 6417 times)

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Cantley Rover

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #120 on May 16, 2018, 03:53:40 PM by Cantley Rover »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44142258?ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_mchannel=social&ocid=socialflow_twitter&ns_source=twitter

I wonder if this will affect shirt sponsorship - I know Virgin Trains still run (or at least put their branding to) the west coast franchise but presumably there won't be many trains bearing their brand passing through Doncaster when this happens?

Why not? That's just the track, nothing to do with the train service.

Not sure what your question is here Glyn.

I was asking why you think there won't be many Virgin trains going through Doncaster seeing as the link is only about the track ownership, not the service that runs on them.

I'm not sure if you're being pedantic Glyn, but it's well publicised that Virgin/Stagecoach will no longer be operating the East Coast Main Line franchise that they currently operate. The story has been updated since I originally posted the link as more details have emerged so I will try to respond in a manner that reflects the article as it reads now.

If you would like me to spell out step-by-step how I arrived asking that question (not really saying "I think" anything, although I did use the word "presumably"), I will do so for you...

I feel like I have a basic understanding of it so please correct me if I’ve got it wrong.

Firstly, I'm not sure what you mean with regards to the track, because Network Rail manages the majority of track and infrastructure of most of the British rail network. As far as my understanding goes, this section of track is not an exception.

“Routes” are franchised out to public or private companies to operate – Stagecoach (90%) and Virgin Trains (10%) operate the East Coast franchise (London to Edinburgh/Leeds, via Doncaster)

Rolling stock that runs under this franchise bears Virgin Trains branding/livery.

Virgin Trains and Stagecoach are to no longer operate this franchise/route and it is to be operated by a public company instead, therefore no longer under the Virgin Trains brand.

The only trains branded as Virgin Trains currently passing through Doncaster are the ones that run on this route due to it being franchised to them and Stagecoach, as far as I understand.

Virgin Trains still operate the West Coast franchise (although under a legally and operationally separate entity) but none of the routes on this franchise pass through Doncaster, again, as far as I understand.

So (this is the bit that is just my logic) there won’t be any Virgin Trains running through Doncaster once the franchise is under control of a public company, because as it states in the link, Stagecoach/Virgin attempted to re-negotiate the contract with no success, and the service will be renamed LNER.

Therefore, to rephrase my original question – will Virgin Trains still be sponsoring Doncaster Rovers, when all of the routes under the management of, and trains bearing the branding of, Virgin Trains, operate on the opposite side of the country and seemingly none will pass through Doncaster.

If my understanding of any of the above is incorrect, I welcome your assistance in answering my question.

Hopefully it'll end up with us having sponsor free shirts for a while.

I would guess they have already been produced.

RoversAlias

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #121 on May 16, 2018, 05:50:49 PM by RoversAlias »
Produced or not, if the sponsorship deal suddenly ends then wouldn't be advertising them on our shirts.

Virgin Trains losing the ECML contract probably means an end at some point soon to our deal with them as it was clearly the reason for them pursuing it.

It's okay saying maybe it'll be good if we don't have a shirt sponsor but in addition to the money it brings in for us the newly designed shirts would not look good with no sponsor as there's a big gap in the 'hoops' and to fit it in.

German Rover

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #122 on May 16, 2018, 07:08:24 PM by German Rover »
Produced or not, if the sponsorship deal suddenly ends then wouldn't be advertising them on our shirts.

Virgin Trains losing the ECML contract probably means an end at some point soon to our deal with them as it was clearly the reason for them pursuing it.

It's okay saying maybe it'll be good if we don't have a shirt sponsor but in addition to the money it brings in for us the newly designed shirts would not look good with no sponsor as there's a big gap in the 'hoops' and to fit it in.

But at least people in the shirts wouldn't be advertising a bus company who thought it could fleece the exchequer and beardy t**t branson.

silent majority

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #123 on May 16, 2018, 08:03:03 PM by silent majority »
I despair, I really do. Do you not think that DRFC would have factored everything in to the ongoing situation? I would bet they have.

NickDRFC

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #124 on May 16, 2018, 09:48:51 PM by NickDRFC »
I despair, I really do. Do you not think that DRFC would have factored everything in to the ongoing situation? I would bet they have.


Dunno, you’d have thought that the club would have factored everything into loaning a player to a relegation rival, including a recall clause. Yet that didn’t happen. Perhaps they’re a bit more savvy these days though.

silent majority

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #125 on May 17, 2018, 08:19:50 AM by silent majority »
I despair, I really do. Do you not think that DRFC would have factored everything in to the ongoing situation? I would bet they have.


Dunno, you’d have thought that the club would have factored everything into loaning a player to a relegation rival, including a recall clause. Yet that didn’t happen. Perhaps they’re a bit more savvy these days though.

I'm talking about a commercial decision Nick, nothing to do with the loan of players, that's a managers decision.

deebee

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #126 on May 17, 2018, 08:54:01 AM by deebee »
Virgin Cross Country will still call at Doncaster as it did before it got the  NE franchise.

pib

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #127 on May 17, 2018, 08:59:24 AM by pib »
Virgin Cross Country will still call at Doncaster as it did before it got the  NE franchise.

They won't because Virgin CrossCountry hasn't existed since 2007.

Cross Country has been run and owned by Arriva since then.

DearneValleyRover

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #128 on May 17, 2018, 09:09:04 AM by DearneValleyRover »
Virgin Cross Country will still call at Doncaster as it did before it got the  NE franchise.

They won't because Virgin CrossCountry hasn't existed since 2007.

Cross Country has been run and owned by Arriva since then.

Correct

ditch_drfc

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #129 on May 17, 2018, 11:14:50 AM by ditch_drfc »
Does anyone know who we're actually sponsored by?

Is it Virgin Trains East Coast AKA EAST COAST MAIN LINE COMPANY LIMITED (http://data.companieshouse.gov.uk/doc/company/04659708) - i.e. the part that won't exist as of June 24th?

Or is it Virgin Trains AKA West Coast Trains Limited (http://data.companieshouse.gov.uk/doc/company/03007940)?

Both have the same logos but are two different companies.

Maybe the new operator (LNER) will inherit the sponsorship agreement?

German Rover

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #130 on May 17, 2018, 11:29:32 AM by German Rover »
Does anyone know who we're actually sponsored by?

Is it Virgin Trains East Coast AKA EAST COAST MAIN LINE COMPANY LIMITED (http://data.companieshouse.gov.uk/doc/company/04659708) - i.e. the part that won't exist as of June 24th?

Or is it Virgin Trains AKA West Coast Trains Limited (http://data.companieshouse.gov.uk/doc/company/03007940)?

Both have the same logos but are two different companies.

Maybe the new operator (LNER) will inherit the sponsorship agreement?

Hopefully not. As much as I love the rovers I don't want my tax going towards any football team

Cantley Rover

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #131 on May 17, 2018, 03:02:23 PM by Cantley Rover »
Does anyone know who we're actually sponsored by?

Is it Virgin Trains East Coast AKA EAST COAST MAIN LINE COMPANY LIMITED (http://data.companieshouse.gov.uk/doc/company/04659708) - i.e. the part that won't exist as of June 24th?

Or is it Virgin Trains AKA West Coast Trains Limited (http://data.companieshouse.gov.uk/doc/company/03007940)?

Both have the same logos but are two different companies.

Maybe the new operator (LNER) will inherit the sponsorship agreement?

Hopefully not. As much as I love the rovers I don't want my tax going towards any football team

I doubt it will be much anyway.

VivaRovers

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #132 on May 17, 2018, 04:49:51 PM by VivaRovers »
I despair, I really do. Do you not think that DRFC would have factored everything in to the ongoing situation? I would bet they have.

Seems an odd thing to 'despair' at Martin.

I think our shirt sponsor ceasing their operations is a reasonable point for people to ask, speculate about. You might be in a position that enables you to know the ins and outs of this particular deal, but the rest of us aren't.

If Rovers have factored all this in, and there's nowt to worry about then great - but unless that is made public knowledge then surely you can see it's natural that people are going to be asking these pretty reasonable questions.

Cantley Rover

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #133 on May 17, 2018, 05:10:25 PM by Cantley Rover »
I would imagine it is highly unusual for a club to factor a company going bust (or similar) into a short sponsorship deal?

swintonrover

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #134 on May 17, 2018, 05:25:50 PM by swintonrover »
Didn't West Hams shirt sponsor go bust a few years ago? Some kind of airline? Sure they just played in shirts without sponsors for the rest of the season.

silent majority

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #135 on May 17, 2018, 05:56:50 PM by silent majority »
I despair, I really do. Do you not think that DRFC would have factored everything in to the ongoing situation? I would bet they have.

Seems an odd thing to 'despair' at Martin.

I think our shirt sponsor ceasing their operations is a reasonable point for people to ask, speculate about. You might be in a position that enables you to know the ins and outs of this particular deal, but the rest of us aren't.

If Rovers have factored all this in, and there's nowt to worry about then great - but unless that is made public knowledge then surely you can see it's natural that people are going to be asking these pretty reasonable questions.

Hi Glen, yes you're right, a bit of an overreaction from myself, and I blame the stinking migraine I had last night! However the initial reaction from some, which I find disappointing, is that everything is a negative and that the Rovers are always 'behind the curve' somewhat.

It doesn't matter what the subject is the default position is we won't be good enough, or we'll take the cheap option, or something similar. It can be players, or budgets, or shirts, it really doesn't matter. I'm all for debate on any subject, but the negative position always holds sway on here.

The position with the ECML didn't come out of the blue, its been up for discussion for many months, and there was an issue which would have to be resolved one way or the other. The commercial team at DRFC are very good in the deals they do. I trust them to have everything in hand.



silent majority

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #136 on May 17, 2018, 05:59:26 PM by silent majority »
I would imagine it is highly unusual for a club to factor a company going bust (or similar) into a short sponsorship deal?

Why would it be highly unusual? It was common knowledge, and has been for months,  that the ECML was having difficulties. Surely any business that had agreements with the main players would have an agenda item that covered such a circumstance?

I would find it highly unusual for them not to factor that in.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 06:01:37 PM by silent majority »

pib

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #137 on May 17, 2018, 08:20:10 PM by pib »
I despair, I really do. Do you not think that DRFC would have factored everything in to the ongoing situation? I would bet they have.

Seems an odd thing to 'despair' at Martin.

I think our shirt sponsor ceasing their operations is a reasonable point for people to ask, speculate about. You might be in a position that enables you to know the ins and outs of this particular deal, but the rest of us aren't.

If Rovers have factored all this in, and there's nowt to worry about then great - but unless that is made public knowledge then surely you can see it's natural that people are going to be asking these pretty reasonable questions.

Hi Glen, yes you're right, a bit of an overreaction from myself, and I blame the stinking migraine I had last night! However the initial reaction from some, which I find disappointing, is that everything is a negative and that the Rovers are always 'behind the curve' somewhat.

It doesn't matter what the subject is the default position is we won't be good enough, or we'll take the cheap option, or something similar. It can be players, or budgets, or shirts, it really doesn't matter. I'm all for debate on any subject, but the negative position always holds sway on here.

The position with the ECML didn't come out of the blue, its been up for discussion for many months, and there was an issue which would have to be resolved one way or the other. The commercial team at DRFC are very good in the deals they do. I trust them to have everything in hand.




I don't really see how the reaction has been negative - just people asking how it might affect the sponsorship deal that's all, and one or two others commenting that it wouldn't be ideal for us to lose a sponsor. A pretty neutral set of points if you ask me.

I haven't seen anyone express an opinion on this thread that the club is at fault, isn't good enough, or has taken the cheap option.

It happens, and has happened to bigger clubs than Rovers. I think it was West Ham a few years ago who were sponsored by a company that went under so had to remove it from the shirts. (Edit - just realised someone else has mentioned this already)

RedJ

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #138 on May 17, 2018, 08:30:10 PM by RedJ »
Was it Newcastle who were sponsored by Northern Rock who then had to remove the sponsor because the bank went under.

godlike1

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #139 on May 17, 2018, 10:44:02 PM by godlike1 »
No it just got changed to virgin money who bought northern for snip from the gov

RedJ

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #140 on May 18, 2018, 09:14:00 AM by RedJ »
Must've been West Brom then, I'm convinced a Premier League club with black and white stripes played with no sponsor at one point and since there's only two of them...

DannyRovers

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #141 on May 18, 2018, 10:35:03 AM by DannyRovers »
Must've been West Brom then, I'm convinced a Premier League club with black and white stripes played with no sponsor at one point and since there's only two of them...

not black and white but I remember West ham covered their sponsor with squad numbers one season. Can't remember who the sponsor was though.

pib

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #142 on May 18, 2018, 10:51:35 AM by pib »
Must've been West Brom then, I'm convinced a Premier League club with black and white stripes played with no sponsor at one point and since there's only two of them...

not black and white but I remember West ham covered their sponsor with squad numbers one season. Can't remember who the sponsor was though.

It appears to have happened to them twice: https://www.theguardian.com/business/blog/2015/jan/16/west-ham-united-faced-empty-chests-shirt-sponsor-alpari-bust

Alpari in 2015 (not sure if it was removed from shirts) and XL in 2008.

RoversAlias

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #143 on May 18, 2018, 12:26:35 PM by RoversAlias »
Must've been West Brom then, I'm convinced a Premier League club with black and white stripes played with no sponsor at one point and since there's only two of them...

You're surely remembering Newcastle when Northern Rock collapsed. It did get changed to Virgin Money but I'm sure it was either just pasted over the old logo on the shirts for a time or they had to conceal the Northern Rock logo.

RedJ

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #144 on May 18, 2018, 12:43:48 PM by RedJ »
I'm convinced it was. I don't think it was for very long but I'm absolutely convinced Newcastle played a few games with no shirt sponsor.

Cantley Rover

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #145 on May 18, 2018, 02:28:16 PM by Cantley Rover »
It seems the wheel has turned full circle. It has been announced today that on the 24th June the East Coast Main Line will transition to be operated by LNER - London North Eastern Railway.

Standanista

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #146 on May 18, 2018, 02:30:19 PM by Standanista »
Terrible. That's saved me some money.

scawsby steve

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #147 on May 18, 2018, 06:18:33 PM by scawsby steve »
Must've been West Brom then, I'm convinced a Premier League club with black and white stripes played with no sponsor at one point and since there's only two of them...

Sorry to be pedantic, mate, but West Brom play in navy blue and white stripes. Apparently Newcastle fans are proud to be the only true magpies of the Premier League.

RedJ

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #148 on May 19, 2018, 03:18:49 PM by RedJ »
Oh piss off. :P

scawsby steve

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Re: New Kit
« Reply #149 on May 20, 2018, 02:29:23 AM by scawsby steve »
Oh piss off. :P

This pedanticitis I'm suffering from is becoming a nuisance; I think I need to get out more.