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At this point Billy it's a combination of flat out xenophobes, and people who are too proud to admit they believed the lies. I'd like to hope that there is nobody stupid enough to still believe it is an economically sound idea.The sooner somebody points out the direct correlation between areas of the country which have been trashed by the government and leave voters, the sooner this whole farce can be abandoned.
Quote from: RedJ it was a it was a vote itlink=topic=268078.msg818775#msg818775 date=1543867905And that oversimplification is exactly why binary referendums shouldn't be used on such complex issues.it was a vote and as such should stand or democracy is dead
And that oversimplification is exactly why binary referendums shouldn't be used on such complex issues.
This thread for me is a microcosm of why such complex and important decisions shouldn't be decided in Me v You public referendum votes anyway.Can somebody please point out a bonafide reason why we should be happy to not be in the EU please.
BST,Please tell me the legitimate mechanism for reversing the UK governments triggering of Article 50. As far as I understand, a legal agreement has been signed. How can it be put aside?
Quote from: swintonrover on December 04, 2018, 01:09:58 amAt this point Billy it's a combination of flat out xenophobes, and people who are too proud to admit they believed the lies. I'd like to hope that there is nobody stupid enough to still believe it is an economically sound idea.The sooner somebody points out the direct correlation between areas of the country which have been trashed by the government and leave voters, the sooner this whole farce can be abandoned.What a short sighted and insulting view. But I'll forgive you, and chalk it down to you being less informed.
Quote from: Boomstick on December 04, 2018, 10:31:07 amQuote from: swintonrover on December 04, 2018, 01:09:58 amAt this point Billy it's a combination of flat out xenophobes, and people who are too proud to admit they believed the lies. I'd like to hope that there is nobody stupid enough to still believe it is an economically sound idea.The sooner somebody points out the direct correlation between areas of the country which have been trashed by the government and leave voters, the sooner this whole farce can be abandoned.What a short sighted and insulting view. But I'll forgive you, and chalk it down to you being less informed.Lets take the emotion out of the above so you can help us out here and refute each point bs.1/ xenophobia has been shown to be a reason for people to support brexit as other reasons show little material gain.2/ It is possible people are reluctant to admit they have been duped, no one is happy to have the wool pulled over .....3/ there anyone out there stupid enough to believe brexit is a sound idea? brexit is still supported despite mountains of evidence telling us it is a very bad idea.4/Pointing out areas in Britain where they have been trashed by the government and leave voters. There are very few areas in Britain that do not have growing poverty with people relying on food banks to survive, not sure this can be attributed directly to leave voters except that the uncertainty over the last few years has shown to have affected trade, it can however be directly attributed to government incompetence as per austerity.5/ short sighted view? It's mostly supportable by evidence, insulting? to whom? some people are just plain racists. I am not tagging you with this label bs but the guardian has just published information showing just that.
Quote from: SydneyRover on December 04, 2018, 11:10:56 amQuote from: Boomstick on December 04, 2018, 10:31:07 amQuote from: swintonrover on December 04, 2018, 01:09:58 amAt this point Billy it's a combination of flat out xenophobes, and people who are too proud to admit they believed the lies. I'd like to hope that there is nobody stupid enough to still believe it is an economically sound idea.The sooner somebody points out the direct correlation between areas of the country which have been trashed by the government and leave voters, the sooner this whole farce can be abandoned.What a short sighted and insulting view. But I'll forgive you, and chalk it down to you being less informed.Lets take the emotion out of the above so you can help us out here and refute each point bs.1/ xenophobia has been shown to be a reason for people to support brexit as other reasons show little material gain.2/ It is possible people are reluctant to admit they have been duped, no one is happy to have the wool pulled over .....3/ there anyone out there stupid enough to believe brexit is a sound idea? brexit is still supported despite mountains of evidence telling us it is a very bad idea.4/Pointing out areas in Britain where they have been trashed by the government and leave voters. There are very few areas in Britain that do not have growing poverty with people relying on food banks to survive, not sure this can be attributed directly to leave voters except that the uncertainty over the last few years has shown to have affected trade, it can however be directly attributed to government incompetence as per austerity.5/ short sighted view? It's mostly supportable by evidence, insulting? to whom? some people are just plain racists. I am not tagging you with this label bs but the guardian has just published information showing just that.To me and the vast majority of brexiteers, it shows how desperate and weak the remainers argument is by shouting xenophobia/ racism. It's weak and pathetic. I certainly don't think I've been duped, economics didn't come into it for me when I voted, and again I dare say the vast majority. It all boils down to ideology, something the left and remainers are scared to admit. Do I think the government has done a good job ? No Are the EU being awkward, yes you can't blame them.
LaurelsQuote from: Boomstick on December 04, 2018, 11:28:39 amQuote from: SydneyRover on December 04, 2018, 11:10:56 amQuote from: Boomstick on December 04, 2018, 10:31:07 amQuote from: swintonrover on December 04, 2018, 01:09:58 amAt this point Billy it's a combination of flat out xenophobes, and people who are too proud to admit they believed the lies. I'd like to hope that there is nobody stupid enough to still believe it is an economically sound idea.The sooner somebody points out the direct correlation between areas of the country which have been trashed by the government and leave voters, the sooner this whole farce can be abandoned.What a short sighted and insulting view. But I'll forgive you, and chalk it down to you being less informed.Lets take the emotion out of the above so you can help us out here and refute each point bs.1/ xenophobia has been shown to be a reason for people to support brexit as other reasons show little material gain.2/ It is possible people are reluctant to admit they have been duped, no one is happy to have the wool pulled over .....3/ there anyone out there stupid enough to believe brexit is a sound idea? brexit is still supported despite mountains of evidence telling us it is a very bad idea.4/Pointing out areas in Britain where they have been trashed by the government and leave voters. There are very few areas in Britain that do not have growing poverty with people relying on food banks to survive, not sure this can be attributed directly to leave voters except that the uncertainty over the last few years has shown to have affected trade, it can however be directly attributed to government incompetence as per austerity.5/ short sighted view? It's mostly supportable by evidence, insulting? to whom? some people are just plain racists. I am not tagging you with this label bs but the guardian has just published information showing just that.To me and the vast majority of brexiteers, it shows how desperate and weak the remainers argument is by shouting xenophobia/ racism. It's weak and pathetic. I certainly don't think I've been duped, economics didn't come into it for me when I voted, and again I dare say the vast majority. It all boils down to ideology, something the left and remainers are scared to admit. Do I think the government has done a good job ? No Are the EU being awkward, yes you can't blame them. Economics didn’t come into it? Surely that’s the most important thing???
Quote from: GazLaz on December 04, 2018, 11:33:05 amLaurelsQuote from: Boomstick on December 04, 2018, 11:28:39 amQuote from: SydneyRover on December 04, 2018, 11:10:56 amQuote from: Boomstick on December 04, 2018, 10:31:07 amQuote from: swintonrover on December 04, 2018, 01:09:58 amAt this point Billy it's a combination of flat out xenophobes, and people who are too proud to admit they believed the lies. I'd like to hope that there is nobody stupid enough to still believe it is an economically sound idea.The sooner somebody points out the direct correlation between areas of the country which have been trashed by the government and leave voters, the sooner this whole farce can be abandoned.What a short sighted and insulting view. But I'll forgive you, and chalk it down to you being less informed.Lets take the emotion out of the above so you can help us out here and refute each point bs.1/ xenophobia has been shown to be a reason for people to support brexit as other reasons show little material gain.2/ It is possible people are reluctant to admit they have been duped, no one is happy to have the wool pulled over .....3/ there anyone out there stupid enough to believe brexit is a sound idea? brexit is still supported despite mountains of evidence telling us it is a very bad idea.4/Pointing out areas in Britain where they have been trashed by the government and leave voters. There are very few areas in Britain that do not have growing poverty with people relying on food banks to survive, not sure this can be attributed directly to leave voters except that the uncertainty over the last few years has shown to have affected trade, it can however be directly attributed to government incompetence as per austerity.5/ short sighted view? It's mostly supportable by evidence, insulting? to whom? some people are just plain racists. I am not tagging you with this label bs but the guardian has just published information showing just that.To me and the vast majority of brexiteers, it shows how desperate and weak the remainers argument is by shouting xenophobia/ racism. It's weak and pathetic. I certainly don't think I've been duped, economics didn't come into it for me when I voted, and again I dare say the vast majority. It all boils down to ideology, something the left and remainers are scared to admit. Do I think the government has done a good job ? No Are the EU being awkward, yes you can't blame them. Economics didn’t come into it? Surely that’s the most important thing???Nope, not for me and I dare say the majority of voters. ( Except the richest 5%)
So you're saying that the majority of voters didn't care that they were deliberately voting to make themselves poorer just to stick two fingers up to the EU. Jesus wept.
Supporting articles of above post.Govt incompetence/indefferencehttps://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/dec/04/four-million-british-workers-live-in-poverty-charity-saysEverday racism.https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/03/flatshare-bias-room-seekers-with-muslim-name-get-fewer-repliesMore incompetencehttps://www.theguardian.com/education/2018/dec/04/thousands-of-hard-to-teach-pupils-removed-from-schools-ofstedMore indifferencehttps://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/dec/03/uk-debt-case-study-council-more-aggressive-payday-lenders
PhilNo. That's absolutely not how our system works. We don't elect delegates who are mandated to vote in a specific way. We elect representatives who are supposed to weigh up issues and decide in good conscience how to vote. If you don't like how they vote, you can vote against them at the next GE. THAT is how our system works.
I'm totally confused at what you are saying BS (although in fairness, you are the only one who has responded).Are you saying:1) You do accept the opinion of the vast majority of economists, that Hard Brexit will make us poorer by an amount that utterly dwarfs the 2008 recession, but there are advantages that outweigh that. In which case, can you tell us what they are. Or2) That you don't believe the vast majority of economists' predictions. In which case, can you explain why not?
BSOn what evidence do you base your belief that the economic consequences won't be as bad as the vast majority of economists predict?Do you believe that they are all politically motivated, and have compromised their professional integrity to mislead the country?
I agree that we didn’t have the full facts. The really annoying aspect of all this are the politicians themselves. Very few of them really care. All the resignations and all the rhetorical nonsense being spouted is about self glorification. In my personal view this should not be about their personal views. They all know how their own individual constituency voted. They are there to represent their constituents. No matter which way they voted they should all go with their constituents who they are elected to represent. If your constituents voted in and you think out unlucky in my view you should represent the people who voted for you not your own personal view