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IDM. I asked BJW a question. What am I twisting or distorting?
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on September 20, 2019, 09:59:14 pmIn response to your other points.1) Jesus wept...2) Yes. They. Did. The economic experts predicted a sharp devaluation, a spike in inflation, falling real wages as a result, a sharp reduction in foreign investment, an ongoing productivity slump and a sharp economic slowdown. Every one of those things happened. They were predicted to happen not because of uncertainty, but because of the high likelihood that ANY form of Brexit would lead to a weaker economic future. The only uncertainty is whether it is going to be bad or very bad. If there was a likely upside, there would be many companies who would be investing heavily on the chance of making a killing by getting in ahead of the pack.3) Those predictions were demonstrably correct. And now you're at it again, saying it is due to uncertainty, which you yourself blame if Remainers blocking Brexit. You've also regularly suggested that we've struggled after the Vote because of Remainers' moaning about the outcome instead of knuckling down. What you have never once done is accept that the bad things that happened in 2 were predictable and predicted by straightforward economic analysis.4) So you flatly contradict your response to 2...5) What you have constantly done is to refuse to engage with the overwhelming consensus of people who spend their lives analysing these things and have a long track record of being right. You simply dismiss them as being of no importance. And then you make smart arse remarks about other people's supposed bad faith.No. What I've constantly done is supported democracy. The result of the referendum being carried out far outweighs the financial consequences in terms of importance any day.
In response to your other points.1) Jesus wept...2) Yes. They. Did. The economic experts predicted a sharp devaluation, a spike in inflation, falling real wages as a result, a sharp reduction in foreign investment, an ongoing productivity slump and a sharp economic slowdown. Every one of those things happened. They were predicted to happen not because of uncertainty, but because of the high likelihood that ANY form of Brexit would lead to a weaker economic future. The only uncertainty is whether it is going to be bad or very bad. If there was a likely upside, there would be many companies who would be investing heavily on the chance of making a killing by getting in ahead of the pack.3) Those predictions were demonstrably correct. And now you're at it again, saying it is due to uncertainty, which you yourself blame if Remainers blocking Brexit. You've also regularly suggested that we've struggled after the Vote because of Remainers' moaning about the outcome instead of knuckling down. What you have never once done is accept that the bad things that happened in 2 were predictable and predicted by straightforward economic analysis.4) So you flatly contradict your response to 2...5) What you have constantly done is to refuse to engage with the overwhelming consensus of people who spend their lives analysing these things and have a long track record of being right. You simply dismiss them as being of no importance. And then you make smart arse remarks about other people's supposed bad faith.
BJW. It is your democratic right to disagree with the result of a democratic vote, but how long will you have such a democratic right if we do away with democracy by not honouring them?
Quote from: Bentley Bullet on September 21, 2019, 10:18:38 amBJW. It is your democratic right to disagree with the result of a democratic vote, but how long will you have such a democratic right if we do away with democracy by not honouring them?We aren't doing away with democracy though. The referendum wasn't legally binding; so legally it was just there to gauge public opinion. If you as a constituent then feel your representative (MP) in parliament isn't doing their job and/or aren't representing you, you don't vote for them in the next election. THAT is a parliamentary democracy, which isn't being damaged by Brexit at all.The suggestion that parliament ignoring a non-binding referendum means democracy is dying is very naive / garbage.
I think so NNK. In fear of being daft again, I'll keep my idea of it to myself for now. Perhaps a properly educated bloke like you can offer the correct definition?
government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth
Tell you what IDM, ask BJW himself!
The David Cameron who has been accused of running a campaign dubbed Project Fear and who said he would stay on as PM whatever the referendum result - and then resigned the day after loosing. That David Cameron you think might be a liar?
Quote from: Bentley Bullet on September 21, 2019, 12:50:22 pmTell you what IDM, ask BJW himself!No need, I understood it in the first place.. you either didn’t, or are determined to take the argument down your own track..Look BB, I have no personal gripe with you and I have no issue with the referendum result itself. Neither do I care much for party politics.What I do want to see, is an outcome that is best for the country as a whole.. if that means Brexit, then let’s do it properly even if it takes longer.. if it can’t be done, then the public needs to be asked if it really wants no deal..No twisting, no blame, no politicking..
Quote from: Bentley Bullet on September 21, 2019, 12:41:38 pmI think so NNK. In fear of being daft again, I'll keep my idea of it to myself for now. Perhaps a properly educated bloke like you can offer the correct definition? I think Abraham Lincoln summed it up rather well in his Gettysburg Address Quotegovernment of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth It is that third part 'for the people' that is vitally important, that is - any decision taken should be in the interests of the people as a whole. Now, can you tell me why you think making the majority of the people in the UK less well off whilst also limiting their ability to live and work anywhere in the EU is in their interests? Oh, and I'd honestly be interested in your idea of what 'democracy' is.
Interesting response. Powell's speech did have the effect of encouraging violence whether he meant that or not. He could have chosen to explicitly clarify what his actual position was. And he chose never to do that. Which is, well, irresponsible at best.
Quote from: Not Now Kato on September 21, 2019, 12:54:42 pmQuote from: Bentley Bullet on September 21, 2019, 12:41:38 pmI think so NNK. In fear of being daft again, I'll keep my idea of it to myself for now. Perhaps a properly educated bloke like you can offer the correct definition? I think Abraham Lincoln summed it up rather well in his Gettysburg Address Quotegovernment of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth It is that third part 'for the people' that is vitally important, that is - any decision taken should be in the interests of the people as a whole. Now, can you tell me why you think making the majority of the people in the UK less well off whilst also limiting their ability to live and work anywhere in the EU is in their interests? Oh, and I'd honestly be interested in your idea of what 'democracy' is. Cat got your tongue BB?
Quote from: Not Now Kato on September 21, 2019, 05:48:47 pmQuote from: Not Now Kato on September 21, 2019, 12:54:42 pmQuote from: Bentley Bullet on September 21, 2019, 12:41:38 pmI think so NNK. In fear of being daft again, I'll keep my idea of it to myself for now. Perhaps a properly educated bloke like you can offer the correct definition? I think Abraham Lincoln summed it up rather well in his Gettysburg Address Quotegovernment of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth It is that third part 'for the people' that is vitally important, that is - any decision taken should be in the interests of the people as a whole. Now, can you tell me why you think making the majority of the people in the UK less well off whilst also limiting their ability to live and work anywhere in the EU is in their interests? Oh, and I'd honestly be interested in your idea of what 'democracy' is. Cat got your tongue BB?Why don't you ask the majority of the people who voted to leave? I'm sure they wouldn't agree with your theory of doom and gloom. They'd just call you a whinging bad loser who believes in democracy as long as you get your own way.It is because of people like you why I would now change my vote to leave. I just don't want to be on your side!
BBI would believe you. Of course I would. I've no reason whatsoever to assume you'd be lying. It's when you post stuff that is very easy to read either way that I struggle to figure out what you mean, and consequently I might reach the wrong honest conclusion.
If you find my view unclear it says more about you than it does me. Time and time and time again I've explained my view. I'll explain it one last time.I voted to remain.Leave won, so as far as I was concerned we were all leavers.Some of the remain voters kicked up such a stink about losing that they became known as Remoaners.I no longer wanted to be part of that lot and vowed to vote Leave if we were forced to have another referendum.To me, democracy is majority rule. If the majority rules on a vote, that vote should be carried out. if that vote is overruled before it has been implemented, it is not democracy.