Electric Cars - a serious logistical question

[Donnywolf]

I only really thought of this yesterday - and have never seen it mentioned anywhere else - but I am interested !
In the future we are all going to be driving E Cars it seems. There are an increasing number of charging Points (like the ones at Asda for example always occupied by non electric Cars) but nontheless there will need to be millions more
However given the huge amount of on Street parking - think your local Street or your route to work and the number of Cars there NOW - how many of those Cars will be able to get to a Charging point ?
The convenience of these Cars is supposed to be that you charge them overnight and drive off to work - or the Shops where if the Car needs charging again then you do it there and drive home.

I expect the ranges of each model will increase as they have been consistently doing and presume Charging facilities will improve - maybe we will be running on Hydrogen Cells or something out of Back to the Future BUT till then will there be loads of Cables leaving each house in the Streets trailing across the Paths to each Car and if yes will you have to have a space alloted within "reach" of your Charging Point as you cant "fill up" if not
OR
Will the Streets be empty of Cars as huge custom built Car Parks with Charging are "provided" for a fee and all the Cars go there at night (extremely unlikely)
Will Asda provide many more - lets say hundreds of Charging spots ? Not all Cars will need Charging at the same time of course - and will those with fully charged Cars still inconsiderately pinch the disabled spots as they are nearer to the Doors or almost as bad park in the Charging Bays even though they dont need them
I could go on (and usually do) as there are loads more logistical but not perhaps logical questions still whirling in my head. I have been a bit flippant but seriously what do others think ?

[RedJ]

I'm good at laying cables if they need a hand with that.

[tommy toes]

Stop worrying your pretty little head JT.
In a few years me and thee will be too decrepit to drive owt.

[GazLaz]

I like the look of the Tesla X. I’d definitely have one.

[Geoff Blakesley]

A lot of people park their car in the drive/front garden. They would be able to have a charging point fixed to the house or cable into the house wouldn't they ?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Yes but then a lot of modern developments don't allow for that and a lot still have random street parking.

Suspect electric will work for some.but not all.

[drfchound]

Wolfie, I have a friend who lives in Bentley who has an electric car, but no off-road parking.
He actually does put the charging cable through his letterbox at night and plugs it in, in the hallway of his house.

I have discussed the points you raise with quite a few people.
If you consider a typical motorway fuel station with say, twenty pumps.
It takes about five minutes to fill up and go and pay, so in theory at busy times you would get twenty cars every five minutes through, around 240 cars per hour.
I know that isn’t actually how it goes, but it could happen.
Even if it was half of that it is still quite a lot of cars going through in an hour.

I don’t know how long it would take to fully charge an electric car but if they had twenty charging points I am sure they wouldn’t get that many cars through in an hour.

As you say JT, where are all the charging points going to be for people to charge their cars at night and more so, for people making onward journeys.
If you were travelling by all electric car to say, Gillingham, to watch the Rovers, how much extra “charging time” would you have to add to the time you would be travelling.

As a driver of a diesel car I am looking at electric hybrid options available to me for when I next swap.

Obviously the hybrids switch from electric to petrol but the future all electric cars will need a serious amount of charging points available for them and will need to have a better range of distance on one charge.

[Bentley Bullet]

I envisage huge traffic jams because of hundreds, nay thousands of cars with flat batteries blocking up the roads.

The current situation as it stands couldn't cope with the recharging demands.

[drfchound]

I envisage huge traffic jams because of hundreds, nay thousands of cars with flat batteries blocking up the roads.

The current situation as it stands couldn't cope with the recharging demands.

Yep, the motorways would be like the M2 is going to be post Brexit.

[Bentley Bullet]

I envisage huge traffic jams because of hundreds, nay thousands of cars with flat batteries blocking up the roads.

The current situation as it stands couldn't cope with the recharging demands.

Yep, the motorways would be like the M2 is going to be post Brexit.

If you listen to some of the Remainers we'll all be too skint to have vehicles post Brexit!

[bobjimwilly]

the charging infrastructure will have to keep up, but I don't think there will be a problem.

[Donnywolf]

I just thought - picking a random Street - any one of the Hyde Park ones where there are cars parked on each side

There would be Cables (maybe dozens) out of peoples Houses night and day. How many people would be going past them with Prams Buggies Mobility Scooters Wheelchairs

As Tommytoes "politely" put it me and him will be even more decrepit (or worse) by then but seems a big problem looking

If May is still PM maybe she will provide "a strong and cable governance" ?

[Bentley Bullet]

Cables won't be left lying around for long in these parts. Our 'travelling' community will quickly eliminate that particular problem.

[RedJ]

I just thought - picking a random Street - any one of the Hyde Park ones where there are cars parked on each side

There would be Cables (maybe dozens) out of peoples Houses night and day. How many people would be going past them with Prams Buggies Mobility Scooters Wheelchairs

As Tommytoes "politely" put it me and him will be even more decrepit (or worse) by then but seems a big problem looking

If May is still PM maybe she will provide "a strong and cable governance" ?

Simple. Equip them with big f**koff tyres and they'll have no problem getting over them.

[casperjebba]

BMW have been developing contactless charging, by building charge points into flat surfaces, gets rid of the need to have charging points and cables.

I think the idea long term is for roads to have this built in so that your car charges whilst moving on the road.

Crazy times

[Bentley Bullet]

That sounds a very feasible idea, once they've mastered the 'flat surface' obstacle.

[Bentley Bullet]

It's all well and good this clean air project but how much will a gallon of electricity actually cost us?

[RedJ]

I know f**k all about cars but could they not make batteries that charge themselves using the kinetic energy generated by the axles?

[bobjimwilly]

I know f**k all about cars but could they not make batteries that charge themselves using the kinetic energy generated by the axles?

regenerative braking is already used in a lot of electric cars, but it's impossible to charge fully using these methods due to laws of thermodynamics 

[Bentley Bullet]

I was just about to say that. 

[Filo]

BMW have been developing contactless charging, by building charge points into flat surfaces, gets rid of the need to have charging points and cables.

I think the idea long term is for roads to have this built in so that your car charges whilst moving on the road.

Crazy times

More on that here

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/road-charges-your-electric-car

[bobjimwilly]

BMW have been developing contactless charging, by building charge points into flat surfaces, gets rid of the need to have charging points and cables.

I think the idea long term is for roads to have this built in so that your car charges whilst moving on the road.

Crazy times

More on that here

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/road-charges-your-electric-car

would make more sense to incorporate this technology in car parks initially - can't see councils forking out for this tech in the next 20 years, nevermind the next 10 years.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I know f**k all about cars but could they not make batteries that charge themselves using the kinetic energy generated by the axles?

I'd have thought the simplest solution wold be to have an easily inserted/removable battery arrangement in the car. You then have two batteries - one plugged in, the other is fully charged and (say) in the boot. When the plugged in one dies (or more likely, your car tells you it needs changing), you then swap the batteries over so that you're now instantly fully charged again. Whilst driving on the second battery you take the first battery to something akin to a 'petrol station' where you swap your dead battery for a fully charged up one, just paying for the power in the new battery - which is then put in the boot ready to swap when the plugged-in battery dies, and so on. It would mean no hanging about waiting for the car itself to charge, just plug in a new battery and go. It also does away with the need for charging points. It recycles the batteries themselves as the empty ones the 'petrol station' gets are recharged by them ready to be sold on, probably the next day. It's like how calor gas is sold - if you give the gas seller an empty bottle, they only charge you for the gas in the bottle they give you, not the gas plus the bottle which is what you'd have to pay for if you didn't give them an empty.

Having said all that, I've no idea how big or heavy such a battery would be, so I don't know how practicable an idea having swappable batteries would be. Plus, it'd mean all the car manufacturers agreeing on a standard battery size and fitting attachment to make them be completely interchangable - but that could be dictated to them from above if necessary.

[albie]

Interesting discussion, fellas!

A better way to look at EV development is in the context of a change of energy supplies, and what a technology disruption means.

Check out this video, it explains it very well;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVm74yE0aUE

Some of our politicians have not understood the nature of the new industrial revolution.

As an example of what Seba is on about, see this review of the new Nissan Leaf;
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/01/09/nissan-leaf-e-60kwh-battery-was-it-worth-the-wait/

Key point is the range increase. The early Leaf offered 85 miles between charges...now look!

Empty roofspace (like much of the Keepmoat) fitted with solar panels feeding fast chargers is a no brainer.

You will only be driving a fartmobile in 2025 if you are totally retro.

[roversdude]

Imagine what tower blocks may look like with extension leads all over

[roversontheup]

Friend of mine has a hybrid car. She wont risk getting the charging cable pinched by charging in public places when she isn’t there. Seems they cost hundreds of pounds to replace.

[wilts rover]

I believe there is a plan to covert street lights into car charging points

https://www.thechargingpoint.com/news/articles/electric-car-lamp-post-charging-points-are-heading-to-the-uk/

[Metalmicky]

I believe there is a plan to covert street lights into car charging points

https://www.thechargingpoint.com/news/articles/electric-car-lamp-post-charging-points-are-heading-to-the-uk/

This......

[Donnywolf]

Imagine what tower blocks may look like with extension leads all over

That is a great point and indeed one of the reasons I posted this initially was to see what else there was that I had not eve thought of.

It is something that must be worked out and no doubt technology will prevail - perhaps hydrogen cells will prevail ? The Lamp post thing seems a good idea but I always go back in my mind to Hyde Park streets and the fact there will be 60 Cars and 2 Lamp posts and / or loads of cables out of front windows ?

[albie]

Most are going to charge up at the supermarket, leisure centre or at the Rovers!

Anywhere that you park up for a stretch while doing something else.
There are not going to be hundreds of cables laying across the street from houses.

Anybody with a drive or garage will top up at home. Nissan sell home battery storage packs so you can top up overnight if you charge the pack during the day from solar.

Given that the cost per km is 10x higher for a fartmobile than an EV, the cost of the solar is just paying upfront for your fuel costs. Work out how much per year you spend on petrol/diesel when you think about the overall costs.