Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

[SydneyRover]

The Sun is only credible when it suits!

It's not like it used to be, the sun doesn't shine any more.

[bpoolrover]

Nasty party doesn’t wash mate even people in the Labour Party question now the bullying and anti Semitic views of there own party is that. It a nasty party?

[SydneyRover]

Maybe you only read your own post thoroughly bp but what has been said is that if any still exists it is being addressed but the conservatives haven't yet done a thing about their problem they've just put it off, made a promise if you like and you know what Johnson's promises are worth, we all know that don't we. Happy hunting 

[bpoolrover]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-50360863 Yes I see it has vanished

[bpoolrover]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-50338256 That’s 2 in a day or so

[bpoolrover]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-corbyn-general-election-jewish-affiliate-boycott-leadership-a9178326.html

[bpoolrover]

Emily Thornberry”no 1 can pretend there is not a on going problem with anti Semitic in the Labour Party” apart from Sydney of course😘

[SydneyRover]

Proven my point bp thanks 

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wilts

I'm struggling to see the point you're trying to argue.

If you're saying that Labour failed utterly when trying to confront Thatcherism from a moderate-to-far-ish Left position from 1983-1992 and moved a long way to the right in reaction to the searing experiences of defeat after defeat, I agree with you entirely.

If you're saying that Blair was a move too far to the right, I agree with you entirely. As I've said, I left the Labour party because of that. But yeah, you carry on telling me I'm a Blair apologist and ignoring the actual content of what I'm saying.

In practical terms, of course Thatcher won. That's bleeding obvious. If you like, then yes, Blair was the consequence of the fact that the Labour movement and party had been battered by Thatcher.

That said, the original point being addressed here was the facile claim from the Left (repeated by BB, oddly, almost as if...) that Blair's Govt might as well have been Tory. You oiled in with the Thatcher quote as if that clinched the argument. I've given you a list of policies that Blair's Govt instituted that no Tory Govt would have ever done. I note that you haven't addressed any of those. Your choice, but it does make me question your bona fides on this point.

If you're wanting to play counterfactuals saying positioning Labour a long, long way to the left of Blair would have resulted in a Labour Govt in the late 90s, you're away with the fairies, and pretending the previous two decades didn't happen.

Which brings us to the key question for anyone on the Left.

What would you have preferred in 97? A Blair Govt of a Major Govt?

In 2001? Blair or Hague?

In 2005? Blair or Howard.

For me, the answers are bleeding obvious, but it amazes me how rarely you hear someone from the left fringes of the Labour party answer them.

But those are the key questions. That was the reality of the situation. That was the choice we had, and a big part of the reason that was the choice was the fact that the Left had aided Thatcher in destroying the credibility of a much more left-leaning Labour party. And the current representatives of the Labour Left that f**ked up so badly in the 1980s, and left the working class defenceless against Thatcher, are the first to stick the boot in to Blair.

[wilts rover]

Billy I'm not the one trying to make a point, you are. You appear to be arguing with yourself.

BB posted something to wind you up (trolling I believe the young people call it) you bit.

I have given you a bit of factual history and a well known comment for your perusal. You can take that exactly how you wish.

I have no interest in discussing Tony Blair or the ins and outs of the Labour Party in the 1990's - other than to point out that he was a moderate as Macmillan and Heath who would not recognise how far right their party has gone today - as I am far more interested in the current election than 1997.

If you want to get back to me after 12th December I would be happy to debate it with you.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wilts

I'll chalk you up as yet another person from the Left refusing to answer the question of whether they'd have preferred Blair to Howard.

Fascinating. You have no interest in discussing Blair...except the several times that you've done precisely that in this thread. And in that last post, where, once again, you ignore the facts that Macmilland and Heath would not and did not increase funding to the NHS like Blair did, or bring in civil partnerships like Blair did. Which makes your claim to place Blair alongside them, simply daft.

I also note that, despite you not being interested in discussing Blair, you were quick to wade in with an accusation that i was a Blairite social democrat despite my numerous comments about leaving the Labour party because of Blair, and agreeing with the vast majority of Corbyn's domestic policies.

I know that everyone has the right to decide what they do and don't want to talk about, but equally, people have the right to draw conclusions from what people don't say. I've met many people on the Left who have told me straight that they didn't see any difference between a Blair Govt and a Major Govt. I guess I'll have to put you down as one who doesn't really think that, but doesn't want to admit that he doesn't.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Isn't this thread symptomatic of some labour views?  Anti semitism.  For me there is an element disgracefully of it being used to score points.  However the labour party has an issue with the  volume of these stories that cannot be denied.

But many appear in labour to use the same excuses.  Smear campaign, tory stories, labour mps working for the tories, paid by Israel etc.etc.  These things are typical and do nothing to stop what is an actual problem clearly.  How far does it go before we see hate crimes on Jewish people or physical assaults?  Rather than come up with excuses just stamp it out completely.  Zero tolerance, yet are we seeing that happen?

As I said before those who point score with it in the press are no better. It stokes up something that can become an issue very easily. History has taught us this before.  The fear has to be that some of the young impressionable people will see Jewish people as the problem and that is very very dangerous, not necessarily deliberately but by accident.

Note, the same.thing applies to any form of racism etc in any walk of life. No excuses and zero tolerance.

[SydneyRover]

To ensure this is not stirring the pot bfyp then I think it is your responsibility to supply some evidence so it can be debated in a reasonable fashion, unless that is you're too busy right now 

[foxbat]

dePfeffel Johnson made two separate blunders during today’s Remembrance Sunday service at the Cenotaph in London. First Johnson – mind seemingly wandering , looking like he had had a fight with a Flymo– set off before his turn to place a wreath at the monument; then he placed it upside down in a show of ceremonial disrespect.

The Establishment broadcasters appear to have ignored Johnson’s actions entirely – in stark contrast to the blanket coverage that would have followed had it been Corbyn.

But a sharp-eyed SKWAWKBOX reader spotted that by this point Johnson had already shown disrespect to the memory of fallen servicemen and women.

During the silence at 11am, as other political leaders stood still in remembrance, Johnson’s eyes, head and attention were wandering all over the place

If Corbyn had done any one of the things Boris Johnson did today, the media would not stop repeating it for a week or more – every half hour at least.

But Boris Johnson’s indiscipline and disrespect has apparently prompted nothing but profound silence among broadcasters , and of
course the right wing press,

[drfchound]

Oh don’t worry mate, you have highlighted it all.

[SydneyRover]

Are you going to vote for Johnson who employs the man that gave us Brexit, that will give us no-deal and stopped the North East Assembly in its tracks with a whole lot of lies?

''Dominic Cummings honed strategy in 2004 vote, video reveals

North-east campaign pitted people against politicians and pledged cash for NHS''

Now where have I heard that before?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/12/dominic-cummings-honed-strategy-2004-vote-north-east

[Metalmicky]

dePfeffel Johnson made two separate blunders during today’s Remembrance Sunday service at the Cenotaph in London. First Johnson – mind seemingly wandering , looking like he had had a fight with a Flymo– set off before his turn to place a wreath at the monument; then he placed it upside down in a show of ceremonial disrespect.

The Establishment broadcasters appear to have ignored Johnson’s actions entirely – in stark contrast to the blanket coverage that would have followed had it been Corbyn.

But a sharp-eyed SKWAWKBOX reader spotted that by this point Johnson had already shown disrespect to the memory of fallen servicemen and women.

During the silence at 11am, as other political leaders stood still in remembrance, Johnson’s eyes, head and attention were wandering all over the place

If Corbyn had done any one of the things Boris Johnson did today, the media would not stop repeating it for a week or more – every half hour at least.

But Boris Johnson’s indiscipline and disrespect has apparently prompted nothing but profound silence among broadcasters , and of
course the right wing press,

I'm not a fan of BJ - but auntie seems to like him............ I didn't see it myself (I was on parade and paying my respects) but they apparently showed footage from another year to cover up the buffoons 'performance' on Sunday...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1193850734518951936

BBC Breakfast
@BBCBreakfast
This morning on the programme we incorrectly used footage from a Remembrance Day service that was not filmed yesterday.

This was a production mistake and we apologise for the error.

[Filo]

The Clash! On his party political broadcast tonight he has said his favourite group was The Clash f**king unbelievable! Joe Strummer should haunt him every minute of every day!

[wilts rover]

 I'd like to force No Deal on the nation
When I put the commons into prorogation

your the worst PM, that we've ever had
He fought the law and the law won

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0pTpwqkB48

[Filo]

I bet he loved these lyrics

White youth, black youth
Better find another solution
Why not phone up Robin Hood
And ask him for some wealth distribution
Punk rockers in the UK
They won't notice anyway
They're all too busy fighting
For a good place under the lighting
The new groups are not concerned
With what there is to be learned
They got Burton suits, ha, you think it's funny
Turning rebellion into money
All over people changing their votes
Along with their overcoats
If Adolf Hitler flew in today
They'd send a limousine anyway
I'm the all night drug-prowling wolf
Who looks so sick in the sun
I'm the white man in the Palais
Just lookin' for fun

[BillyStubbsTears]

Jonny Marr was brilliant after that puffy faced non-entity Cameron had a Smiths song in his Desert Island Discs list.

Marr said "I forbid you to like The Smiths".

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://mobile.twitter.com/johnny_marr/status/10237162679177216?lang=en-gb

[Filo]

Just waiting for JRM to announce he was a massive fan of The Specials now 😂😂😂😂😂

[foxbat]

nice to see dePfeffel Spaffwaffle getting the reaction he deserves.

effectively told to F@ck Off

https://twitter.com/i/status/1194575266452004864

will the BBC 'accidentally' splice some different footage in later ??

[foxbat]

In fact , if you look at it

Boris Johnson visits North since
PM

-Stainforth: ‘I don’t want to meet you. What are you doing here?’

-Leeds: ‘Please leave my town’

-Doncaster: ‘You’ve a cheek coming here. People have died because of austerity’

-Rotherham: ‘Get back to Parliament and sort out the mess’

[drfchound]

In fact , if you look at it

Boris Johnson visits North since
PM

-Stainforth: ‘I don’t want to meet you. What are you doing here?’

-Leeds: ‘Please leave my town’

-Doncaster: ‘You’ve a cheek coming here. People have died because of austerity’

-Rotherham: ‘Get back to Parliament and sort out the mess’

Crikey foxbat, you get around quite a lot.

[wilts rover]

Boris Johnson's flooding failures make Jeremy Corbyn look credible as PM

In the Yorkshire Post! The Yorkshire Post! Apparently he refused to do an interview with them too.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/opinion/columnists/boris-johnson-s-five-flooding-failures-make-jeremy-corbyn-look-credible-as-pm-finally-visits-doncaster-tom-richmond-1-10101111

[BillyStubbsTears]

I bet he loves visiting Yorkshire.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1194628421982158850

[Filo]

Ushered him out of the back door when a bloke heckled him in Stainforth Resource centre, and on Stainforth bridge a woman was far too polite when basically telling him to f**k off, he looked a bit bewildered that no one seemed fussed about him being here

[Filo]

Looks a bit out of his comfort zone here

https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1194694105013608455