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Author Topic: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson  (Read 82109 times)

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BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1200 on April 29, 2020, 10:46:26 am by BillyStubbsTears »
My mistake by the way. it's 5 or 6. Not that the absolute number matters, it's more the uncertainty.



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Ldr

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1201 on April 29, 2020, 10:49:02 am by Ldr »
I'd disagree, his personal life is not the public's business regardless of how you want to spin it.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1202 on April 29, 2020, 10:51:32 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Ldr.

So you're happy with a PM who has been serially dishonest in both his private and his prior professional life?

You don't think that raises questions about his honesty in public life?

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1203 on April 29, 2020, 10:52:45 am by BillyStubbsTears »
I suspect MI6 would probably have a rather different take to concerns about his private life. I'd have loved to have been a fly on the wall at his DV interview.

Ldr

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1204 on April 29, 2020, 10:53:42 am by Ldr »
No, but I dont agree that means his personal life is the business of the public either.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1205 on April 29, 2020, 10:54:50 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Then how is the public to judge whether he is trustworthy when he pulls that big doe-eyed look and asks us to trust him?

EDIT:

Sorry, I forgot. Your take is that they are ALL liars isn't it?

IDM

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1206 on April 29, 2020, 10:55:24 am by IDM »
The details of his personal life - resulting in press hounding of his extended family - is not in the public interest.

But matters which affect his trustworthiness do make a difference.

Look at all the fuss when it appears that some senior MPs and ministers once smoked weed at university.?

Ldr

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1207 on April 29, 2020, 10:57:11 am by Ldr »
I refer you back to my comments in other threads about the public only wanting to consume fear and outrage from the media

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1208 on April 29, 2020, 10:58:16 am by BillyStubbsTears »
The details of his personal life - resulting in press hounding of his extended family - is not in the public interest.

But matters which affect his trustworthiness do make a difference.

Look at all the fuss when it appears that some senior MPs and ministers once smoked weed at university.?

But again, that is a matter of integrity. So we have at least one Cabinet Minister who is a well known fan of Colombian Marching Powder. And he sits in a Govt which has deported British raised citizens for drug dealing.

Don't you think that Cabinet Minister's personal habits are relevant in judging how they deal with these issues?

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1209 on April 29, 2020, 10:59:11 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Ldr.

I'm not interested in the public's obsessions. I'm looking at basic principles here.

Ldr

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1210 on April 29, 2020, 11:02:06 am by Ldr »
I understand that but it's a relevant point  you are digging to find something to be outraged over. Not knowing how many kids he has does not affect my judgement of the PM. His sheer incompetence in the job does

Ldr

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1211 on April 29, 2020, 11:02:55 am by Ldr »
I'll add subconsciously digging

SydneyRover

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1212 on April 29, 2020, 11:04:05 am by SydneyRover »
I'll wait until it has been independently verified before I believe it at all  :)

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1213 on April 29, 2020, 11:10:44 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Ldr.

If he had an impeccable (or even half-decent) record of honesty in his professional life, I'd agree with you that the occasional failing in his private life was irrelevant.

Spin it round the other way though.

He's lied throughout his professional life. It's often argued that that is just Boris playing the game. It's OK because he doesn't really believe the "lies" he tells and everybody understands that. It's just part of his facade, but he's not really like that.

But when you add that to his regular deceptions and lies about his private life, the "game" argument crumbles. It looks far more like a man who is a pathological liar in all aspects of his life and personality.

Me, I think it's rather important that we consider that in a politician.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1214 on April 29, 2020, 11:14:05 am by BillyStubbsTears »
You remember that hospital visit during the election campaign? When the parent (who, yes, was a Labour party member, but that isn't relevant) upbraided him about being at a photo-op in a hospital in which his 2 year old was seriously ill?

And Johnson's response? Immediate. From the gut. "There's no Press here". Said in front of a pack of Press photographers and video cameramen.

It all fits a consistent theme. Instinctive, pathological lying.

Personally, I find that terrifying.

Ldr

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1215 on April 29, 2020, 11:17:15 am by Ldr »
I look at it this way, given we KNOW hes a liar, what relevance does his private life have on any judgement? We know what we need to know about him already

IDM

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1216 on April 29, 2020, 11:28:48 am by IDM »
The details of his personal life - resulting in press hounding of his extended family - is not in the public interest.

But matters which affect his trustworthiness do make a difference.

Look at all the fuss when it appears that some senior MPs and ministers once smoked weed at university.?

But again, that is a matter of integrity. So we have at least one Cabinet Minister who is a well known fan of Colombian Marching Powder. And he sits in a Govt which has deported British raised citizens for drug dealing.

Don't you think that Cabinet Minister's personal habits are relevant in judging how they deal with these issues?

Yes I agree, it is important to know whether such people have proven integrity, however some of the finer details can stay private.  That’s all I meant.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1217 on April 29, 2020, 12:34:39 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
I look at it this way, given we KNOW hes a liar, what relevance does his private life have on any judgement? We know what we need to know about him already

Because of what I said before. While ever it is only the professional life stuff, Johnson supporters can and do run with the story that this has just been Johnson playing a deliberate characature role to gain attention. All that stuff about straight bananas and Italians saying the EU standard condom was too long, and that stuff about him painting wine crates into models of buses. It's just him injecting a bit of levity into politics.

I'll put it another way. How many people in the country do you reckon think Johnson is just play acting as a clown, and how many think he's a dangerous pathological liar?

Ldr

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1218 on April 29, 2020, 12:40:28 pm by Ldr »
No idea, and neither do you

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1219 on April 29, 2020, 12:50:09 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Precisely.

But I know as well as I can know anything that he is.

I've been far too close to someone professionally who turned out to be a pathological liar. Brilliant, witty, a charmer, the life and soul of every occasion. And it turned out to be an entirely false personality construct. What he actually was was a thief, a cheat and a fraudster. And when he fell apart the damage it did was huge. Financially, reputationally and in terms of the mental health of people who got caught up in it.

I see exactly the same behaviour from Johnson. That hospital example with Johnson made the penny drop for me. His instinctive reaction to a challenge or a problem is to lie. Not as a political strategy. As a gut reaction.

That scares the living daylights out of me because I've seen how a pathological liar can charm people and then bring everything crashing down around them. Because they are not the person they convinced folk to think they were.

So to me, it means that every aspect of Johnson's every decision and act needs to be analysed and critiqued on the assumption that he is lying, either deliberately or instinctively. And publicised so that other people see it.

Not just a shrug of the shoulders and on to something else.

Ldr

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1220 on April 29, 2020, 12:56:19 pm by Ldr »
That's fair enough and I understand your reasoning from your experience

SydneyRover

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1221 on April 29, 2020, 12:58:13 pm by SydneyRover »
If a public person uses his private life to promote his 'standing' then it's game on. Johnson has not been shy about promoting himself, it's a bit like 'stars' using the media to promote their careers but then complaining about the media sticking their noses in.

I can't remember johnson complaining about the media come to that?

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1222 on April 29, 2020, 12:59:06 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Cheers Ldr.

I'd much prefer not to have had that experience, I can tell you.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1223 on April 29, 2020, 01:05:09 pm by Bentley Bullet »
If the hospital example you refer to is the best you can do it just shows how you are clutching at straws. Boris was told there would be no press in attendance to interview him, and there wasn't. He wasn't referring to photographers, who are always in attendance.

It was simply a misunderstanding.

SydneyRover

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1224 on April 29, 2020, 01:12:01 pm by SydneyRover »
I also worked with a pathalogical liar that joined a company I worked for that was taken over, I warned the company that it wasn't going to end well and in the end I resigned rather than be associated with him and the new owners further.

He ruined their reputation in the commercial area, after he left they had to take him to court to recover money from him on another matter, someone put a bullet in his head not long afterwards. It was about 20 years ago and that's all the detail I wish to go into.

Added:

I pinned a note to my office wall:

Rules for dealing with xxxxxx

No1. never believe a word xxxx says.

No2. never forget rule number 1.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2020, 01:20:18 pm by SydneyRover »

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1225 on April 29, 2020, 01:42:44 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
BB

I fully expected you to swallow and repeat the ridiculous claim spun by No10 that there was no press there, when in fact No10 had invited press photographers and they were being escorted by No10's press officer to places where they could take photographs and videos.

For use in the Press.

But no it's not my only evidence. I also lean on this quote from his former employer. Who sacked him. For lying.

"Yet his graver vice is cowardice, reflected in a willingness to tell any audience, whatever he thinks most likely to please, heedless of the inevitability of its contradiction an hour later."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/boris-johnson-prime-minister-tory-party-britain

That is precisely what my colleague was like. He'd tell any lie to anybody in order to come out of the encounter with what he wanted. Which was usually them thinking well.of him.

That is what Johnson did in the gut reaction lie. He was put on the spot and embarrassed. He said the first thing that came into his head to try to eliminate the problem.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1226 on April 29, 2020, 02:17:42 pm by Bentley Bullet »
BST. I fully expected you to jump on the bandwagon and refuse to even consider any benefit of the doubt, just as I expect anybody else with a likewise agenda to do so.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1227 on April 29, 2020, 02:19:22 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
BB.

Do you regularly give lifelong pathological liars the benefit of the doubt when they appear to lie?

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1228 on April 29, 2020, 02:29:59 pm by Bentley Bullet »
Yes, if their accusers have a record of political agendas.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
« Reply #1229 on April 29, 2020, 02:35:05 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Like Peter Oborne for example? The lifelong Tory supporter and Brexit voter who was so incensed with Johnson that he set up a website to record his lies?

https://boris-johnson-lies.com/

Or like Max Hastings? Johnson's ex-employer who sacked him. For lying. The lifelong Tory grandee and long-term editor of the Tory supporting newspaper The Telegraph, who accused Johnson of being prepared to tell anyone whatever he thought was most likely to please them (i.e., "lie")?

People with political agendas like that, you mean?

 

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