Bolton game off

[DRNaith]

IF the only thing to happen from this action by Bolton is that the game is played at a later date, then I reckon Rovers should plan a winter break into their fixtures, and rearrange their matches to suit!

[Wheatley]

The thing is...it totally ruins our momentum because a week on saturday against bury will also be postponed so we will have had only 1 game in 2 weeks. That could proper ruin our performances

[Lifelong supporter]

How old were Ian Snodin and Alick when they broke into the team

Ian Snodin was 16, Alick was 15.
At the start of the 1956/57 season Alick played in the first 13 games, including four in the first 10 days, and scored 15 goals...aged 17.
That was in the old League 2, now the Championship, when the game was a lot more physical and defenders used to get away with much more than they do now.
Ian Snodin captained Rovers when he was 18, left the club at 21 by which time he had made over 200 first team appearances...more than half while still a teenager.
When Rovers won promotion in 1980/81 among the leading appearance makers were Ian Snodin, aged 17, (32 league games), David Harle, 17, (34 games), Steve Lister, 19, (39 games), Daral Pugh, 19, (42 games), Glynn Snodin, 21, (44 games), Willie Boyd, 21, (45 games), Billy Russell, 21, (46 games).
It must be a hard life being a young footballer these days.   

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I'm sure the age/welfare issue is one thing being considered by EFL.

As BST says, the Administrator could have done more to avoid this.

[5 on Tour]

If this game is allowed to be re-arranged then the EFL have officially lost control of the leagues. We’ve got Lincoln on Saturday, arguably, the most on form team in the league so let’s just re-arrange for a period where they’re off form. Simples really. Every team could do the same every week and then the season would never finish as the 46 games would never be played.

The EFL have got to take a stand here. It’s the shambles of a process in place to allow these owners to take control of clubs which is the root cause and that’s the EFL’s own doing. If teams are going to be allowed to control fixtures and dates then what purpose are they serving? A group of us could sit down and write a fixture list for the season and issue it to all the clubs in the divisions with a little note saying “just for guidance - arrange it amongst yourselves”.

The EFL are being too weak here and allowing clubs to get away with far too much. Bury should already be kicked out. I don’t want to see any club disappear but they’re unable to play and won’t be able to any time soon. Bolton are now heading down that same path and creating havoc for others. Cancelling this match has cost Rovers and it’s fans money and Bolton don’t give 2 hoots. It’s a joke.

[MachoMadness]

Think it's clear at this point that the welfare line is complete ballacks. It's about hanging on until they can get taken over and presumably play these fixtures later on after they've spunked a load of money on their squad. It's all very cynical. If I were GB I'd just flatly refuse to play any re-arranged fixture. Later in the season, the fixture pile-up always bites. We have a thin, young squad as it is. We shouldn't have to risk our players because another club wants to dictate when we play our games!

[RoversAlias]

Allardyce's thoughts on the 'welfare' issue.

https://twitter.com/talkSPORT/status/1163700870535663618

I can't believe it's come to this, but I actually agree with Sam Allardyce!

[Copps is Magic]

I must admit I have been scratching my head over this welfare issue ever since I read it, and I am still scratching my head.

My intuition (physical aspects aside) is that not only would playing this game tonight not cause any harm to their welfare but would actually increase their welfare. You become more resilient by dealing with adversity.

Physically, unless they had an u18/u23 game Monday night, the welfare of the players just has to be managed like any other club has to manage it.

[adamtherover]

Has anyone mentioned that as it was the administrator, and not the manager who called off the game. Could his motivation be to simply stop a series of heavy defeats that could potentially stop any take over going through, or lower the sale value if propspective buyers saw that the actual team was worse than first thought???

[Bristol Red Rover]

Has anyone mentioned that as it was the administrator, and not the manager who called off the game. Could his motivation be to simply stop a series of heavy defeats that could potentially stop any take over going through, or lower the sale value if propspective buyers saw that the actual team was worse than first thought???

Exactly, this is the reason. Relegation to League 2 would decrease the value of the sale. £s rule. For me they should now go the way of all other lower clubs in this situation, drop several tiers, otherwise it's continuing the safety net for owners which perpetuates poor running of clubs.

[Dr Fundlekrotch]

I must admit I have been scratching my head over this welfare issue ever since I read it, and I am still scratching my head.

My intuition (physical aspects aside) is that not only would playing this game tonight not cause any harm to their welfare but would actually increase their welfare. You become more resilient by dealing with adversity.

Physically, unless they had an u18/u23 game Monday night, the welfare of the players just has to be managed like any other club has to manage it.

Entirely different level of football but my U17s had a fixture pile-up at the end of last season and played 6 games in 14 days.  They loved it and the performances got better and better with the continuity.  A few of those lads also play for Sunday sides and had their games to fit in as well.

I don't buy the welfare thing here.  Our Youth League is Charter Standard and all coaches and club staff have to go through the full welfare courses on an ongoing basis.  The FA makes mention of kids not playing more than X minutes of football in a single day (with the X differing according to age), but nowhere is there any rule limiting how much football they can play in a week/fortnight/month/season/etc

[Dare to dream!]

Has anyone mentioned that as it was the administrator, and not the manager who called off the game. Could his motivation be to simply stop a series of heavy defeats that could potentially stop any take over going through, or lower the sale value if propspective buyers saw that the actual team was worse than first thought???

Parkinson wanted the game off as well.

[MachoMadness]

As far as I can see the only actual person saying the game is officially off and Rovers aren't travelling is Liam Hoden. I think everyone assumes this is the case but it doesn't seem to have been put out there officially. Bolton said it was postponed but they don't have the authority to do that. The EFL just said they're aware of the situation. Shambles from all involved, and I worry that it's us who'll get the shit end of the stick again.

[Not Now Kato]

As far as I can see the only actual person saying the game is officially off and Rovers aren't travelling is Liam Hoden. I think everyone assumes this is the case but it doesn't seem to have been put out there officially. Bolton said it was postponed but they don't have the authority to do that. The EFL just said they're aware of the situation. Shambles from all involved, and I worry that it's us who'll get the shit end of the stick again.

Indeed.  I got an email timed at 19:15 yesterday advertising tickets for the game, (amongst other news), and there's nothing on DROS yet!  I think the club needs to make a statement.

[roversdude]

How old were Ian Snodin and Alick when they broke into the team

Ian Snodin was 16, Alick was 15.
At the start of the 1956/57 season Alick played in the first 13 games, including four in the first 10 days, and scored 15 goals...aged 17.
That was in the old League 2, now the Championship, when the game was a lot more physical and defenders used to get away with much more than they do now.
Ian Snodin captained Rovers when he was 18, left the club at 21 by which time he had made over 200 first team appearances...more than half while still a teenager.
When Rovers won promotion in 1980/81 among the leading appearance makers were Ian Snodin, aged 17, (32 league games), David Harle, 17, (34 games), Steve Lister, 19, (39 games), Daral Pugh, 19, (42 games), Glynn Snodin, 21, (44 games), Willie Boyd, 21, (45 games), Billy Russell, 21, (46 games).
It must be a hard life being a young footballer these days.   

Thanks Lifelong my point exactly-I had forgotten how young most of the others were

[DonnyBazR0ver]

As far as I can see the only actual person saying the game is officially off and Rovers aren't travelling is Liam Hoden. I think everyone assumes this is the case but it doesn't seem to have been put out there officially. Bolton said it was postponed but they don't have the authority to do that. The EFL just said they're aware of the situation. Shambles from all involved, and I worry that it's us who'll get the shit end of the stick again.

Indeed.  I got an email timed at 19:15 yesterday advertising tickets for the game, (amongst other news), and there's nothing on DROS yet!  I think the club needs to make a statement.

Why do the club need to make a further statement on top of that explaining refunds are available?

[drfcsteve]

The EFL haven't made another statement yet what more can the club say. Everyone is in the dark still.

[MachoMadness]

Yeah, I wasn't meaning to have a pop at the club there. Considering they found out after reading Bolton's Twitter, it's fair to say GB and the crew aren't exactly being kept in the loop.

[Herman Hessian]

couple of pertinent points to explore here:

can clubs who are in administration sign 'new' players, under any sort of meaningful contract whatsoever ?

how long does it take to properly process a player administration to the stage that they are able to lawfully appear in a first team game ?

if as I suspect that the answers are, essentially, 'yes' and 'not very long' then bearing in mind the transfer window is still wide open, Bolton could have signed and registered twenty part time/sunday league players after the final whistle on Saturday in plenty of time for them to fulfil the fixture, which should be their first obligation

it also renders the 'welfare' excuse a complete irrelevance, and leaves us with no reason whatsoever why the game should not have gone ahead, other that whatever the as yet unspoken, real motives might turn out to be, which would make for an even more concrete case for Rovers to be awarded the three points - does anyone have the wherewithal to check one or both of those queries ?

the one thing that I keep coming back to when thinking about this is the absolute lack of respect shown to Rovers here, and for that reason alone I want Bolton absolutely shafted and Rovers given the points; there can be no excuse for treating another club in such a shitty, underhand, unprofessional manner - none at all - I'm still f**king seething !

[Filo]

couple of pertinent points to explore here:

can clubs who are in administration sign 'new' players, under any sort of meaningful contract whatsoever ?

how long does it take to properly process a player administration to the stage that they are able to lawfully appear in a first team game ?

if as I suspect that the answers are, essentially, 'yes' and 'not very long' then bearing in mind the transfer window is still wide open, Bolton could have signed and registered twenty part league players after the final whistle on Saturday in plenty of time for them to fulfil the fixture, which should be their first obligation

it also renders the 'welfare' excuse a complete irrelevance, and leaves us with no reason whatsoever why the game should not have gone ahead, other that whatever the as yet unspoken, real motives might turn out to be, which would make for an even more concrete case for Rovers to be awarded the three points - does anyone have the wherewithal to check one or both of those queries ?

the one thing that I keep coming back to when thinking about this is the absolute lack of respect shown to Rovers here, and for that reason alone I want Bolton absolutely shafted and Rovers given the points; there can be no excuse for treating another club in such a shitty, underhand, unprofessional manner - none at all - I'm still f**king seething !

I seem to remember when Portsmouth went into adminstration twice in one season, I’m sure they signed players on short term contracts, in fact I think Mustapha Dumbya might have been one

[Guernsey Exile]

couple of pertinent points to explore here:

can clubs who are in administration sign 'new' players, under any sort of meaningful contract whatsoever ?

how long does it take to properly process a player administration to the stage that they are able to lawfully appear in a first team game ?

if as I suspect that the answers are, essentially, 'yes' and 'not very long' then bearing in mind the transfer window is still wide open, Bolton could have signed and registered twenty part league players after the final whistle on Saturday in plenty of time for them to fulfil the fixture, which should be their first obligation

it also renders the 'welfare' excuse a complete irrelevance, and leaves us with no reason whatsoever why the game should not have gone ahead, other that whatever the as yet unspoken, real motives might turn out to be, which would make for an even more concrete case for Rovers to be awarded the three points - does anyone have the wherewithal to check one or both of those queries ?

the one thing that I keep coming back to when thinking about this is the absolute lack of respect shown to Rovers here, and for that reason alone I want Bolton absolutely shafted and Rovers given the points; there can be no excuse for treating another club in such a shitty, underhand, unprofessional manner - none at all - I'm still f**king seething !

If we dont get a fair outcome I'm done

[IDM]

What do you mean you’re done.?

[Not Now Kato]

As far as I can see the only actual person saying the game is officially off and Rovers aren't travelling is Liam Hoden. I think everyone assumes this is the case but it doesn't seem to have been put out there officially. Bolton said it was postponed but they don't have the authority to do that. The EFL just said they're aware of the situation. Shambles from all involved, and I worry that it's us who'll get the shit end of the stick again.

Indeed.  I got an email timed at 19:15 yesterday advertising tickets for the game, (amongst other news), and there's nothing on DROS yet!  I think the club needs to make a statement.

Why do the club need to make a further statement on top of that explaining refunds are available?

Que? The club hadn't made any statement, let alone a further statement at the time of my posting. According to the email I received yesterday evening they were still selling tickets!  Keep up man.....

[DonnyBazR0ver]

As far as I can see the only actual person saying the game is officially off and Rovers aren't travelling is Liam Hoden. I think everyone assumes this is the case but it doesn't seem to have been put out there officially. Bolton said it was postponed but they don't have the authority to do that. The EFL just said they're aware of the situation. Shambles from all involved, and I worry that it's us who'll get the shit end of the stick again.

Indeed.  I got an email timed at 19:15 yesterday advertising tickets for the game, (amongst other news), and there's nothing on DROS yet!  I think the club needs to make a statement.

Why do the club need to make a further statement on top of that explaining refunds are available?

Que? The club hadn't made any statement, let alone a further statement at the time of my posting. According to the email I received yesterday evening they were still selling tickets!  Keep up man.....

What are you expecting?

[RoversAlias]

As far as I can see the only actual person saying the game is officially off and Rovers aren't travelling is Liam Hoden. I think everyone assumes this is the case but it doesn't seem to have been put out there officially. Bolton said it was postponed but they don't have the authority to do that. The EFL just said they're aware of the situation. Shambles from all involved, and I worry that it's us who'll get the shit end of the stick again.

Indeed.  I got an email timed at 19:15 yesterday advertising tickets for the game, (amongst other news), and there's nothing on DROS yet!  I think the club needs to make a statement.

Why do the club need to make a further statement on top of that explaining refunds are available?

Que? The club hadn't made any statement, let alone a further statement at the time of my posting. According to the email I received yesterday evening they were still selling tickets!  Keep up man.....

The club issued a brief statement from Gavin Baldwin yesterday and posted a notice about ticket refunds. Both of these were done on the evening of Bolton's cancellation announcement. So what would you be wanting exactly?

Also, the e-mail will have been sent out automatically having been scheduled in place to go out 24 hours before the game. As simple as a tick box not being unchecked on the club's e-mail system.

[Not Now Kato]

As far as I can see the only actual person saying the game is officially off and Rovers aren't travelling is Liam Hoden. I think everyone assumes this is the case but it doesn't seem to have been put out there officially. Bolton said it was postponed but they don't have the authority to do that. The EFL just said they're aware of the situation. Shambles from all involved, and I worry that it's us who'll get the shit end of the stick again.

Indeed.  I got an email timed at 19:15 yesterday advertising tickets for the game, (amongst other news), and there's nothing on DROS yet!  I think the club needs to make a statement.

Why do the club need to make a further statement on top of that explaining refunds are available?

Que? The club hadn't made any statement, let alone a further statement at the time of my posting. According to the email I received yesterday evening they were still selling tickets!  Keep up man.....

What are you expecting?

That, as soon as the club knew that the game was off, they update their 'official' web-site with that information.  As someone who has managed and maintained a web-site up till April of this year I can tell you that it takes all of 5 minutes to modify a web page and upload it.
 
At the point in time of my original post the clubs official web-site was showing that the game was on and that tickets were still available; and, whilst people on here had been aware of the situation for some significant time, there are far more Rovers supporters who don't frequent this site than do, and rely on information posted on the clubs site and who would not have been aware and would have believed that the game was still on.  It is incumbent on the clubs marketing department to ensure the accuracy of the information on the clubs web-site.
 
Oh, and an email to all those who received the email I mentioned advising them that the game was off.  I frequently receive emails from other organisations correcting a previous email error so it isn't exactly rocket science!

[Not Now Kato]

As far as I can see the only actual person saying the game is officially off and Rovers aren't travelling is Liam Hoden. I think everyone assumes this is the case but it doesn't seem to have been put out there officially. Bolton said it was postponed but they don't have the authority to do that. The EFL just said they're aware of the situation. Shambles from all involved, and I worry that it's us who'll get the shit end of the stick again.

Indeed.  I got an email timed at 19:15 yesterday advertising tickets for the game, (amongst other news), and there's nothing on DROS yet!  I think the club needs to make a statement.

Why do the club need to make a further statement on top of that explaining refunds are available?

Que? The club hadn't made any statement, let alone a further statement at the time of my posting. According to the email I received yesterday evening they were still selling tickets!  Keep up man.....

The club issued a brief statement from Gavin Baldwin yesterday and posted a notice about ticket refunds. Both of these were done on the evening of Bolton's cancellation announcement. So what would you be wanting exactly?

Also, the e-mail will have been sent out automatically having been scheduled in place to go out 24 hours before the game. As simple as a tick box not being unchecked on the club's e-mail system.

See my post above in response to DBR.

[The Red Baron]

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/17850335.bolton-cite-premier-league-academy-rules-postponing-match/

This makes me think the momentum for postponing the game has come from the football management at the club rather than the Administrator- although he has clearly approved the actions.

If the EFL allows this, it's the end of League Football as we know it. Any club with an injury crisis that is forced to play young players will use it to postpone games at their convenience. I guess at the moment they are considering their response (and I have a feeling the Bury crisis may have meant their eye was off the ball) but they need to come down very hard and make a clear statement that this is not acceptable.

Awarding Rovers a default win and imposing severe sanctions on Bolton is the only solution IMO.

[silent majority]

The statement that the EFL issued, although obviously neutral, in its decision making, was quite damning of one of its member clubs.

No doubt we're pushing for a resolution from our clubs point of view.

[OneandOnly]

Morning all, still sore here I see.

Another couple of quick points (not to defend, but to expand on the issues).

1. Independant gubbins - don't hold your breath, we're still waiting to hear from them for the Brentford call off in April.
2. Brentford - Interesting, as the club didnt call off the game, the EFL did. Because they wouldn't let us play our youth team, due to welfare concerns (they had played 3 days earlier). (The Senior players had gone on strike).
3. Signing players. As mentioned earlier (and refrenced above) - yes we can sign them, but we can't play them. The EFL won't let us register any new players. We have 4 'Senior' players (2 of which are keepers). There would have been 14 year olds in the squad facing you if the game had gone ahead.
4. Points. You should be given the 3 points. You won't. We will (correctly) be docked points, and the game will be replayed later in the season. This will deter other teams doing the same (Call off a game due to tired players, and lose 6-12 points - you will only do it if necessary).
5. the 97-98 season bears no relation to current football. I feel for you, but times have changed. The rules have changed. Possibly because of your 97-98 season.

Ultimately, its all about a lot more thanyourselves (Us, Bury, Macclesfield, more to follow), and I feel a little that fans from a club that have been there seem only concerned about being awarded three points. (Apologies to those looking at the bigger picture, one in which once the dominoes start to fall, the only clubs left are the Premier League clubs).