Coronavirus

[ncRover]

Poor people in China. Still getting locked down by their tyrannical government pursuing their fantasy zero covid policy. Unbelievable that some here pushed it.

People are getting locked in apartments and having their “health passports” turned yellow if they don’t test, leaving them locked out of society.

With no immunity from infection and poor vaccination rates in the elderly they are in for a big wave of deaths sadly, despite the milder variant.

It is worth keeping an eye on as a popular uprising appears to be happening. People do not protest lightly over there.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The key problem they have in China is not vaccination rates. It's that their home grown vaccine doesn't work and the regime is too stubbornly nationalistic to buy foreign ones that do.

So they are stuck in an ongoing nightmare.

Let the vaccine loose and see 10 million people die before Easter. Or keep people locked up.

You reckon the regime would do this if it was easy to protect the vulnerable and let the rest of society get on with stuff?

[BillyStubbsTears]

For the record, I do fully understand with the protests, because the whole vaccine situation has been handled horrifically badly by the Chinese regime. Lockdowns of this length and intensity should never, ever have been remotely necessary.

[ravenrover]

My understanding apart from the  effectiveness of their vaccine, is that there is no mass vaccination plan in place as in UK.

[mugnapper]

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-lab-blunder-linked-to-deaths-of-20-people-investigators-estimate-12758023

[Bristol Red Rover]

My understanding apart from the  effectiveness of their vaccine, is that there is no mass vaccination plan in place as in UK.

Not too different from the UK. In July it was 89.7% vaxxed, and 56% boosted. More since then.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_vaccination_in_mainland_China

UK as of now 93.8% vaxxed, 88.6/69.9% boosted. Given that boosters don't last, the last figure may be more relevant?
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

I'm not seeing that their vax is significantly any less effective than UK ones. eg 80% to 100% compared to 90% - of course going on pharma criteria.

[BillyStubbsTears]

You don't see a lot of things BRR.

[Bristol Red Rover]

You don't see a lot of things BRR.

Is that naff nasty reply an example of the quality of your grey matter after being drugged by your establishment media diet? I pity you, seriously.

[no eyed deer]

So Chris Whitty now blaming lockdown for expensive deaths.. can you believe it ??

[ncRover]

My understanding apart from the  effectiveness of their vaccine, is that there is no mass vaccination plan in place as in UK.

Not too different from the UK. In July it was 89.7% vaxxed, and 56% boosted. More since then.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_vaccination_in_mainland_China

UK as of now 93.8% vaxxed, 88.6/69.9% boosted. Given that boosters don't last, the last figure may be more relevant?
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

I'm not seeing that their vax is significantly any less effective than UK ones. eg 80% to 100% compared to 90% - of course going on pharma criteria.

Who knows what to believe with regards to efficacy % claims anymore. Especially with regards to a Chinese vaccine.

The longer the Chinese population are isolated from coronaviruses, the more dangerous they become to them.

[ravenrover]

Don't tell me that this shower of a Govt are going to make the same mistake again and not impose travel restrictions on incomings from China. Italy India Japan USA and others  have already said negative tests required before being allowed in

[normal rules]

Don't tell me that this shower of a Govt are going to make the same mistake again and not impose travel restrictions on incomings from China. Italy India Japan USA and others  have already said negative tests required before being allowed in

Doesn’t look like it. Jesus.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi69dvWmp38AhWaiVwKHfTUCjAQFnoECA0QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk%2Fpolitics%2Fcovid-china-uk-travel-restrictions-b2252427.html&usg=AOvVaw06-QIXV8ri0igwytyMRiaV

[ncRover]

Why does it bother you that people are coming in from China with coronavirus? Is it a different virus to the one we are all immune to?

[ravenrover]

All immune! I don't think so. I'm fully jabbed but had it twice
That is the point, no one knows if it is a new strain

[ncRover]

All immune! I don't think so. I'm fully jabbed but had it twice
That is the point, no one knows if it is a new strain

And how are you now? Exactly.

Either it’s nothing to worry about or there is nothing that can be done about it.

The current China situation just proves that no amount of totalitarianism can stop a virus like this. Any attempt otherwise is just dooming yourself to going round in circles for eternity whilst giving up your freedoms.

An extinction level asteroid could hit earth tomorrow but I don’t live my life accordingly.

[BillyStubbsTears]

All immune! I don't think so. I'm fully jabbed but had it twice
That is the point, no one knows if it is a new strain

And how are you now? Exactly.

Either it’s nothing to worry about or there is nothing that can be done about it.

The current China situation just proves that no amount of totalitarianism can stop a virus like this. Any attempt otherwise is just dooming yourself to going round in circles for eternity whilst giving up your freedoms.

An extinction level asteroid could hit earth tomorrow but I don’t live my life accordingly.

Do you cross the road without looking?

[ncRover]

All immune! I don't think so. I'm fully jabbed but had it twice
That is the point, no one knows if it is a new strain

And how are you now? Exactly.

Either it’s nothing to worry about or there is nothing that can be done about it.

The current China situation just proves that no amount of totalitarianism can stop a virus like this. Any attempt otherwise is just dooming yourself to going round in circles for eternity whilst giving up your freedoms.

An extinction level asteroid could hit earth tomorrow but I don’t live my life accordingly.

Do you cross the road without looking?

I do everything I can to keep myself healthy. That’s all I can do.

Your strange metaphor is in the realms of personal responsibility so doesn’t really apply

[ravenrover]

All immune! I don't think so. I'm fully jabbed but had it twice
That is the point, no one knows if it is a new strain

And how are you now? Exactly.

Either it’s nothing to worry about or there is nothing that can be done about it.

The current China situation just proves that no amount of totalitarianism can stop a virus like this. Any attempt otherwise is just dooming yourself to going round in circles for eternity whilst giving up your freedoms.

An extinction level asteroid could hit earth tomorrow but I don’t live my life accordingly.

Thr China situation has been brought on by poor vaccines and no mass immunisation programme hence no implementation of total lockdown would ever control it as has now been shown with huge surge in cases. The secrecy behind the situation in China regardig numbers infected and type/s of variant is worrying, will workd vaccines cope against any new possible unknown strains
I presume by the word exactly you are assuming that I have no after effects, correct?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Those two examples are opposite ends of a spectrum.

You cannot do anything to avoid death by asteroid impact so there is no point taking any action. It is a very low incidence situation, so there's little point thinking about it.

You can do pretty much everything to avoid being killed while crossing the road, so it would be lunacy to ignore action which could prevent you from being knocked down. Cars driving on the road when you are wanting to cross is a very high incidence scenario, so there's very much point in thinking about it.

COVID is somewhere in between, both on incidence and on avoidability through personal action. So it seems to me it should be treated in a different way to how you'd treat the two extremes.

[BillyStubbsTears]

All immune! I don't think so. I'm fully jabbed but had it twice
That is the point, no one knows if it is a new strain

And how are you now? Exactly.

Either it’s nothing to worry about or there is nothing that can be done about it.

The current China situation just proves that no amount of totalitarianism can stop a virus like this. Any attempt otherwise is just dooming yourself to going round in circles for eternity whilst giving up your freedoms.

An extinction level asteroid could hit earth tomorrow but I don’t live my life accordingly.

Thr China situation has been brought on by poor vaccines and no mass immunisation programme hence no implementation of total lockdown would ever control it as has now been shown with huge surge in cases. The secrecy behind the situation in China regardig numbers infected and type/s of variant is worrying, will workd vaccines cope against any new possible unknown strains
I presume by the word exactly you are assuming that I have no after effects, correct?

Bang on. China has managed COVID horrifically. They have played the "We don't need assistance from Western Imperialists" uber-nationalist card on the vaccines. And there own vaccine has been shite. And they are paying a heavy price now. And possibly causing renewed problems for the rest of the world.

[ncRover]

All immune! I don't think so. I'm fully jabbed but had it twice
That is the point, no one knows if it is a new strain

And how are you now? Exactly.

Either it’s nothing to worry about or there is nothing that can be done about it.

The current China situation just proves that no amount of totalitarianism can stop a virus like this. Any attempt otherwise is just dooming yourself to going round in circles for eternity whilst giving up your freedoms.

An extinction level asteroid could hit earth tomorrow but I don’t live my life accordingly.

Thr China situation has been brought on by poor vaccines and no mass immunisation programme hence no implementation of total lockdown would ever control it as has now been shown with huge surge in cases. The secrecy behind the situation in China regardig numbers infected and type/s of variant is worrying, will workd vaccines cope against any new possible unknown strains
I presume by the word exactly you are assuming that I have no after effects, correct?

But the UK had massive surges in a highly vaccinated population? The problem in China is the complete lack of natural immunity of which pro-lockdown folk completely ignore as a scientific concept.

I’m not denying any after effects you could have. But long covid syndrome is not a justification for measures. Even if it was, like I said we’d keep going around in circles and it wouldn’t stop it.

Shall we apply the precautionary principle to other potentially harmful things RR and BST? Ban alcohol and cigarettes? Ban processed food? Limit every car to 30mph? All these will kill more people than covid over the next year.

[ncRover]

The healthiest and safest thing we can do is to allow ourselves to be exposed to the latest strains of covid continuously. My source for that is the fundamentals of the human immune system.

[ravenrover]

But you are ignoring thr fact that death from Covid, in many many cases can be and has been avoidable with the.research into the "western" vaccines.

[ncRover]

But you are ignoring thr fact that death from Covid, in many many cases can be and has been avoidable with the.research into the "western" vaccines.

I’m not anti-vax? Vast majority of the population are vaccinated and the vulnerable continually get boosters?

Avoidable further through exercise, vit d, low stress and keeping a healthy weight - all help.

Any other measures are fantasy.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Nc.

The problem China has is not that the population isn't vaccinated. It's that they've been vaccinated with an inefficient vaccine.

Similarly, the problem isn't that you should not allow COVID to pass through a vaccinated population. Of course you should, because you cannot keep stringent NPIs going forever. The problem is, what happens when you allow COVID to pass through a population that's been vaccinated with a crap vaccine?

And please! None of this "natural immunity" horseshit. Just think about it for a moment.

In the absence of vaccine programmes, we know that COVID kills about 0.5% of all the people it infects, and hospitalised maybe 5%. So, without an effective vaccine programme, how does China get natural immunity without 7 million deaths and 70 million people needing hospital treatment.

YES, natural immunity will be strengthened subsequently by exposure to the virus, and relatively mild bouts of illness. But that is the long term process AFTER the vaccinations have blunted the effect of exposing people with no natural immunity to the virus.

In simple terms, if you ignore vaccines, how do you get natural immunity to a deadly virus, without exposing yourself to the deadly virus when you initially have no natural immunity?

[Metalmicky]

EU not looking at imposing screening....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64119080

[ncRover]

Nc.

The problem China has is not that the population isn't vaccinated. It's that they've been vaccinated with an inefficient vaccine.

Similarly, the problem isn't that you should not allow COVID to pass through a vaccinated population. Of course you should, because you cannot keep stringent NPIs going forever. The problem is, what happens when you allow COVID to pass through a population that's been vaccinated with a crap vaccine?

And please! None of this "natural immunity" horseshit. Just think about it for a moment.

In the absence of vaccine programmes, we know that COVID kills about 0.5% of all the people it infects, and hospitalised maybe 5%. So, without an effective vaccine programme, how does China get natural immunity without 7 million deaths and 70 million people needing hospital treatment.

YES, natural immunity will be strengthened subsequently by exposure to the virus, and relatively mild bouts of illness. But that is the long term process AFTER the vaccinations have blunted the effect of exposing people with no natural immunity to the virus.

In simple terms, if you ignore vaccines, how do you get natural immunity to a deadly virus, without exposing yourself to the deadly virus when you initially have no natural immunity?

In answer to your last question.

1) Im not saying to ignore vaccines. They have done their job.

2) By promoting healthy habits in a population (exercise, vit d, keeping weight off, good diet) and then getting exposed. (Exposure doesn’t always equal infection. Think you get a cold when you’re run down). There is no other way. Delaying the inevitable worsens the inevitable through not exposing the immune system.

3) China’s current policy direction is not what is being discussed. It was whether to impose sanctions on those travelling in to the UK from China due to fear of an unconfirmed “new variant”. For which there is no rationale. I feel for the poor people over there, but the damage has been done by the tyrannical CCP; of which our MSM spent years celebrating with their COVID policy.

[ravenrover]

Covid tests required from 5th Jan for arrivals from China
18 March
Grant Shapps says the UK “leads the world in removing all remaining Covid travel restrictions”

Thursday
Government says “No plans to reintroduce Covid testing”

Friday
Transport secretary Mark Harper says: “These sensible, proportionate & temporary measures are needed”

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's absolutely the right thing to do to test people coming in from any country where COVID is running out of control.

Why would you not?

1) If you don't, you are inviting in thousands of new sources of infection.

2) There's a very decent chance that somewhere in those thousands might be a new strain.

3) The test requirement imposes virtually zero cost on the UK economy. China is the place that gets penalised. As they should, because this is their, self-generated f**k up.

It's quite worrying that the Govt's knee jerk reaction was totally counter to all common sense. But it's not really surprising.

[ncRover]

If there’s a new variant in there it’s already here.

In which case, it won’t cause us any issues. It’s just the govt wanting to be seen to be doing something for people who are still scared over what is now (for us) a common cold.

This Christmas lurgy has caused more disruption, should we give that a name and start testing for it?