An electric vehicle that looks like the future

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Conversely I've now done nearly 2000 miles in my new one.  Spent less than £100 on fuel so far.

What model did you buy? Was it worth the wait?

Passat gte, company car though so the cost doesn't massively come in to it, in fact it's cheaper than a full petrol would be tax wise.

Nice car though, got everything I need, quiet, comfortable and easy to drive. Can't really fault it if you want something smart and efficient enough.  Absolutely wouldn't buy one myself though, couldn't justify the £35k+ price imo.

[normal rules]

You don't not use it. It's the same as having fuel in the tank it doesn't go anywhere.  You charge when you need to not every night but if you did keep it full the cost would be just what you've used.

All well and good, unless your ev does around 160 ( Vw e up) mile to a charge. And you have an 80 mile commute every day. Then you charge every night. Because not to, would invoke certain range anxiety. Especially in the winter when you won’t be getting anywhere near 160 to a charge.

[normal rules]

The China made BYD Atto 3 looks like a viable option. Uk release later this year and expected price around 25k. Good range. Good looks . Good quality. They are already shifting loads of them in Australia. They have outstripped Tesla in sales so far this year to be the single biggest ev supplier. They are partnered with Toyota also.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

You don't not use it. It's the same as having fuel in the tank it doesn't go anywhere.  You charge when you need to not every night but if you did keep it full the cost would be just what you've used.

All well and good, unless your ev does around 160 ( Vw e up) mile to a charge. And you have an 80 mile commute every day. Then you charge every night. Because not to, would invoke certain range anxiety. Especially in the winter when you won’t be getting anywhere near 160 to a charge.

Well firstly that's no different to the same scenario with fuel, it's in fact easier as you just plug in at home.  And secondly you would either get a bigger range or not bother at all if you drive long distances frequently until the range is even bigger.  Most of those I know with a Tesla for example find it no issue as they'd stop for a drink on a long drive anyway and can nearly fully charge in 45 minutes.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The general point NR is making is very valid.

A typical small ICE car might do 8-10 miles per litre of fuel. At, say £1.75/litre, that's about 20p/mile.

A typical EV does 3 miles/kWh. The price of electric was 18p/kWh last year, so that was 6p/mile. That was a no brainer. But I've had a quote of 75p/kWh for next year! That makes it 25p/mile. This is going to be a very serious drag on new uptake.

[normal rules]

https://youtu.be/ay2mO7AlBU8

[normal rules]

The general point NR is making is very valid.

A typical small ICE car might do 8-10 miles per litre of fuel. At, say £1.75/litre, that's about 20p/mile.

A typical EV does 3 miles/kWh. The price of electric was 18p/kWh last year, so that was 6p/mile. That was a no brainer. But I've had a quote of 75p/kWh for next year! That makes it 25p/mile. This is going to be a very serious drag on new uptake.

My understanding is that, as a general rules of thumb, an ice car is around 10p per mile whereas an ev is around half that. This is very general of course.
But, this is about to change with standing charges for leccy about to double. And go up again next year. And all this with the backdrop of falling fuel prices.
I’m certainly not being swayed towards ev any time soon.

[normal rules]

Another thing, whilst the uk govt is banning the sale of new ice cars from 2030, I’m guessing the production of fossil fuels will continue un abated. Of course there will still be ice cars on the road, but their numbers will slowly decline. Less demand for petrol and diesel will surely drive the price down? The big suppliers will have excess stocks to shift?
That’s said, I’m sure the uk govt will tax fossil fuels and their users to the hilt. But let’s not forget, if everyone was driving an ev, you can bet your life they will soon feature in car taxation brackets also. And it will be interesting to see how they figure that one out.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The general point NR is making is very valid.

A typical small ICE car might do 8-10 miles per litre of fuel. At, say £1.75/litre, that's about 20p/mile.

A typical EV does 3 miles/kWh. The price of electric was 18p/kWh last year, so that was 6p/mile. That was a no brainer. But I've had a quote of 75p/kWh for next year! That makes it 25p/mile. This is going to be a very serious drag on new uptake.

My understanding is that, as a general rules of thumb, an ice car is around 10p per mile whereas an ev is around half that. This is very general of course.
But, this is about to change with standing charges for leccy about to double. And go up again next year. And all this with the backdrop of falling fuel prices.
I’m certainly not being swayed towards ev any time soon.

At £1.80/litre (roughly £8/gallon) you'd have to do 80mpg to make it 10p/mile.

EVs WERE about 5p/mile a year ago. Not any more.

[normal rules]

1.59 a litre near me.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Then you'd need to do 72mpg.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

The general point NR is making is very valid.

A typical small ICE car might do 8-10 miles per litre of fuel. At, say £1.75/litre, that's about 20p/mile.

A typical EV does 3 miles/kWh. The price of electric was 18p/kWh last year, so that was 6p/mile. That was a no brainer. But I've had a quote of 75p/kWh for next year! That makes it 25p/mile. This is going to be a very serious drag on new uptake.

I absolutely get this and I can use both so I'm lucky.  I've worked it out for my car at a standard tarrif for 52p per kWh it would cost me £5.93 to fully charge (on my current tarrif it's £2.09 and used to be less).  On pure petrol I get 16-17p per mile roughly versus 24p it will end up costing on electric (this time last year it was 5p a mile).

So I won't charge at home but I can charge for free at work, I'm still a winner. If you can't do that then you wouldn't though and it does make it more expensive.

Opens up another conversation potentially for the future.  Can we afford to move away from petrol/diesel?  We have to consider that.

[normal rules]

The general point NR is making is very valid.

A typical small ICE car might do 8-10 miles per litre of fuel. At, say £1.75/litre, that's about 20p/mile.

A typical EV does 3 miles/kWh. The price of electric was 18p/kWh last year, so that was 6p/mile. That was a no brainer. But I've had a quote of 75p/kWh for next year! That makes it 25p/mile. This is going to be a very serious drag on new uptake.

I absolutely get this and I can use both so I'm lucky.  I've worked it out for my car at a standard tarrif for 52p per kWh it would cost me £5.93 to fully charge (on my current tarrif it's £2.09 and used to be less).  On pure petrol I get 16-17p per mile roughly versus 24p it will end up costing on electric (this time last year it was 5p a mile).

So I won't charge at home but I can charge for free at work, I'm still a winner. If you can't do that then you wouldn't though and it does make it more expensive.

Opens up another conversation potentially for the future.  Can we afford to move away from petrol/diesel?  We have to consider that.

Charging for free at work is a luxury. I can’t see many places doing this .
And the real biggy for me is the cost of ev’s in the first place. Someone said on here that over time they would come down in price. Statistics show that despite their increase in popularity. Pound for pound, they are not getting cheaper. Far from it.

[normal rules]

The general point NR is making is very valid.

A typical small ICE car might do 8-10 miles per litre of fuel. At, say £1.75/litre, that's about 20p/mile.

A typical EV does 3 miles/kWh. The price of electric was 18p/kWh last year, so that was 6p/mile. That was a no brainer. But I've had a quote of 75p/kWh for next year! That makes it 25p/mile. This is going to be a very serious drag on new uptake.

I absolutely get this and I can use both so I'm lucky.  I've worked it out for my car at a standard tarrif for 52p per kWh it would cost me £5.93 to fully charge (on my current tarrif it's £2.09 and used to be less).  On pure petrol I get 16-17p per mile roughly versus 24p it will end up costing on electric (this time last year it was 5p a mile).

So I won't charge at home but I can charge for free at work, I'm still a winner. If you can't do that then you wouldn't though and it does make it more expensive.

Opens up another conversation potentially for the future.  Can we afford to move away from petrol/diesel?  We have to consider that.

Ev car makers are not making it too clear about cost per mile for these cars either. We have seen for years that mpg and taxation brackets have been made clear at point of sale ( diesel gate aside) . Yet all ev makers sing about is range and charging time.
The current hike in leccy is levelling off the diff between running costs  of ice and ev. The makers of which won’t want to talk about I guess.
They may say this is a 60 kWh battery etc etc but the average joe in the street will have no idea what this actually relates to and what impact it has on leccy use.
And if you did not need any more convincing on the subject, ask yourself this. Why are ev makers not designing cars that have a very easy and quick way to replace the batteries in them.  Like you would in a torch, or anything battery operated for that matter.

[albie]

The general point NR is making is very valid.

A typical small ICE car might do 8-10 miles per litre of fuel. At, say £1.75/litre, that's about 20p/mile.

A typical EV does 3 miles/kWh. The price of electric was 18p/kWh last year, so that was 6p/mile. That was a no brainer. But I've had a quote of 75p/kWh for next year! That makes it 25p/mile. This is going to be a very serious drag on new uptake.

BST,

Most EV owners are expected to charge overnight, at the lowest tariff rates, not at peak prices.
The exception might be those with solar, using the excess into a parked vehicle during the day.

In addition, the link between electricity prices and wholesale gas costs will be broken in the near future. The EU are expected to change this in October, and the UK will need to follow suit in consequence.

Once that change is brought in, electricity markets will find their own level, and because an increasing percentage of UK electricity is produced from cheap renewables, the unit costs will fall.

The restriction that the UK needs to introduce is to reserve sufficient for UK use, rather than allowing the new capacity to feed international markets. Energy export tariffs is one mechanism to that purpose.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Albie.

I get all that but there are still likely to be high electricity costs for the next year or two at least. You aren't going to be able to wean us off gas as a major producer of electricity in the blink of an eye.

Regarding charging overnight, that's fine if you have an Economy7 meter (which of course you should if you have an EV and the ability to charge at home). An issue with that is, my understanding is that it was considerably harder to get dual fuel rates (when there were deals to be had) if you had an E7 meter. Sounds like an important thing to be sorted out if a d when we ever get back to non-crisis conditions.

[danumdon]

I looked into E7 tariffs when i got my hybrid car, after working through the tariffs it was cheaper to charge your car overnight compared with the tariffs other company's were offering for EV use(even the Octopus 5p per kWh between 0001 and 04.00) But the payback was for domestic use, the charges where higher so your overall costs increased.


Did anyone else get this impression?

[BillyStubbsTears]

We've bitten the bullet and are getting solar panels and a battery installed. That makes it a no brainer to go into an E7 tariff.

[normal rules]

We've bitten the bullet and are getting solar panels and a battery installed. That makes it a no brainer to go into an E7 tariff.

Interested to hear about spec and price

[SydneyRover]

''Printed solar cells to power electric vehicle enthusiast Stuart McBain in Charge Around Australia

Stuart McBain is no stranger to pushing electric vehicles (EVs) to their limits.

Key points:

An EV will be driven 15,000km around Australia to test printed solar
Printed solar has been in development at the University of Newcastle for 27 years
It could one day be incorporated into the body of an EV

He was the first person to drive one right around the United Kingdom, just to prove you could do it, and did the same in Iceland.

But his next EV challenge is possibly his greatest yet.

The accountant from Liverpool in the UK has swapped the overcast chilly climate of home for the beaming hot outback, as he sets off from Newcastle in New South Wales for a lap of Australia.

Inside his EV are rolls of printed solar and they will be used to help power the vehicle on the 15,000-kilometre trip''

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-02/printed-solar-cells-power-electric-vehicle-charge-australia/101394840

[normal rules]

Thieves are targeting public charging cables for the copper content.
So, you’ve spent a second mortgage on your ev, you arrive at you charging point with low charge, only to find there are no cables.
Good luck.

[Panda]

I'll stick to petrol cars. Much less hassle.

[normal rules]

And you can bet your life that those with on street parking will suffer the same fate. There is little to stop thieves taking these. And for those that think that anti theft measures such as at the plug in points will help, think again, the thieving idiots are using bolt croppers while the cars are plugged in to get around this .

[albie]

The Chinese are producing lower cost smaller EV's at scale;
https://cleantechnica.com/2023/05/04/the-wuling-bingo-shines-in-china-silver-badge-good-news-for-global-market/

Once these get to international markets, the big beasts of the western motor economy are in for a rinse, unless they do the same.

[normal rules]

Then you'd need to do 72mpg.

my little 1.0 litre vw up does between 50 and 70mpg.

[glosterred]

Not as green as we’re led to believe

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-10161697/Volvo-says-electric-car-making-emissions-70-HIGHER-petrol.html

[normal rules]

I’m hearing more and more murmurs in the media that the govt are having second thoughts on the 2030 New ICE car ban. Citing insufficient infrastructure.

[drfchound]

I’m hearing more and more murmurs in the media that the govt are having second thoughts on the 2030 New ICE car ban. Citing insufficient infrastructure.

I have always thought that was likely to happen.

[albie]

Chinese BYD now bringing their hatchback to the UK:
https://cleantechnica.com/2023/06/26/byd-dolphin-looks-set-to-make-big-splash-in-uk-australia-new-zealand/

It will be interesting to see how the UK and EU auto sector respond.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I suspect they won't, I don't see how those markets can compete with Chinese manufacturing unfortunately.

Got our first full ev yesterday alongside our plug in hybrid, will be interesting to see how we get on with it.