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Author Topic: Schools Fully Open 8th March  (Read 6671 times)

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Bentley Bullet

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #30 on February 22, 2021, 11:01:13 pm by Bentley Bullet »
I hope I’m wrong but I think he’s gone too early again, I guess this will tell us how good the vaccine is. I feel for the 50 year old plus teachers that have to go back unvaccinated, lambs to the slaughter again
But how are you going to measure it? Obviously there will be more casualties when the lockdown is ended, that's inevitable whenever you end it, but how do we know that delaying coming out of lockdown isn't going to cause more damage to children's education, General public health, mental health, economy, loss of businesses and loss of jobs resulting in even more casualties in the future?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2021, 11:15:54 pm by Bentley Bullet »



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drfchound

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #31 on February 22, 2021, 11:23:09 pm by drfchound »
Well the Welsh Health Minister is confident that schools reopening is a good thing.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #32 on February 22, 2021, 11:30:23 pm by Bentley Bullet »
So is Keir Starmer.

SydneyRover

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #33 on February 22, 2021, 11:49:46 pm by SydneyRover »
good to see you supporting a rational leader bb

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #34 on February 22, 2021, 11:50:55 pm by Bentley Bullet »
We most probably would be rationed under Keir Starmer, Skippy.

SydneyRover

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #35 on February 22, 2021, 11:53:34 pm by SydneyRover »
whilst there is plenty of uncleansed oysters available under johnson

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #36 on February 22, 2021, 11:54:28 pm by Bentley Bullet »
Rather have him than us limpet under Starmer.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 01:26:04 am by Bentley Bullet »

SydneyRover

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #37 on February 22, 2021, 11:56:49 pm by SydneyRover »
haven't learned anything from 10 years of oysterity under the tories bb?

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #38 on February 23, 2021, 12:07:02 am by Bentley Bullet »
Boris had full intentions of going away from austerity, skippy, and we would have been enjoying the benefits from it had it not been for the pandemic. To say he was for austerity is like saying Starmer is a war criminal.

To dismiss the comparison is a load of scallops.

SydneyRover

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #39 on February 23, 2021, 12:55:11 am by SydneyRover »
And you are the right person to know bb

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #40 on February 23, 2021, 01:09:07 am by Bentley Bullet »
Given the options on this forum Skippy, I'd say yes.

albie

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #41 on February 23, 2021, 01:29:33 pm by albie »
I hope I’m wrong but I think he’s gone too early again, I guess this will tell us how good the vaccine is. I feel for the 50 year old plus teachers that have to go back unvaccinated, lambs to the slaughter again
But how are you going to measure it? Obviously there will be more casualties when the lockdown is ended, that's inevitable whenever you end it, but how do we know that delaying coming out of lockdown isn't going to cause more damage to children's education, General public health, mental health, economy, loss of businesses and loss of jobs resulting in even more casualties in the future?

Measure what, BB?

Delaying coming out of lockdown would be in order to minimise avoidable deaths.
Yes, there would be some losses to other considerations, but surely if these can be mitigated then that should be the objective of policy.

For example, the school term could be extended into the summer break, to recoup some of the contact time kids are missing.

There is a real risk that in disregarding the advice of SAGE (see the minutes), Trumpty plays the odds in favour of needing another lockdown, with all that it involves.

The option of delaying school return until after Easter greatly increases the odds in his favour in managing the epidemic.

There is a reason that you seek expert advice...and it is not to ignore it because you think you know better, despite having no expertise in the subject.

bobjimwilly

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #42 on February 23, 2021, 02:10:11 pm by bobjimwilly »
Boris had full intentions of going away from austerity, skippy, and we would have been enjoying the benefits from it had it not been for the pandemic....

Which this government has made worse by every measure. EVEN NOW the airports are not closed. EVEN NOW you don't have to scan track and trace to enter a super market. EVEN NOW, after TWENTY-TWO BILLION POUNDS spent on track and trace, it doesn't work. EVEN NOW we're not asking everyone who hasn't been tested to go and get tested, knowing full well 1 in 3 people with Covid are asymptomatic.

Anyone who still defends Boris needs to give their head a proper wobble.

Ldr

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #43 on February 23, 2021, 02:15:23 pm by Ldr »
Boris had full intentions of going away from austerity, skippy, and we would have been enjoying the benefits from it had it not been for the pandemic....

Which this government has made worse by every measure. EVEN NOW the airports are not closed. EVEN NOW you don't have to scan track and trace to enter a super market. EVEN NOW, after TWENTY-TWO BILLION POUNDS spent on track and trace, it doesn't work. EVEN NOW we're not asking everyone who hasn't been tested to go and get tested, knowing full well 1 in 3 people with Covid are asymptomatic.

Anyone who still defends Boris needs to give their head a proper wobble.

Hes indefensible, though I maintain all labour had to do was put up a credible alternative last election they should have walked it. Labour member who put Corbyn in position should also share a sense of responsibility here

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #44 on February 23, 2021, 02:45:24 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Ldr.

Labour don't have Corbyn in charge now. The Tories are still ahead in the polls. Johnson is ahead of Starmer as Best PM.

Clearly Johnson is NOT indefensible.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #45 on February 23, 2021, 02:48:01 pm by Bentley Bullet »
I hope I’m wrong but I think he’s gone too early again, I guess this will tell us how good the vaccine is. I feel for the 50 year old plus teachers that have to go back unvaccinated, lambs to the slaughter again
But how are you going to measure it? Obviously there will be more casualties when the lockdown is ended, that's inevitable whenever you end it, but how do we know that delaying coming out of lockdown isn't going to cause more damage to children's education, General public health, mental health, economy, loss of businesses and loss of jobs resulting in even more casualties in the future?

Measure what, BB?

Delaying coming out of lockdown would be in order to minimise avoidable deaths.
Yes, there would be some losses to other considerations, but surely if these can be mitigated then that should be the objective of policy.

For example, the school term could be extended into the summer break, to recoup some of the contact time kids are missing.

There is a real risk that in disregarding the advice of SAGE (see the minutes), Trumpty plays the odds in favour of needing another lockdown, with all that it involves.

The option of delaying school return until after Easter greatly increases the odds in his favour in managing the epidemic.

There is a reason that you seek expert advice...and it is not to ignore it because you think you know better, despite having no expertise in the subject.

By measure I mean how can we measure a comparison in casualties between coming out of lockdown sooner in comparison to later when considering all the other aspects involved in lockdowns, such as the damage it causes to children's education, General public health, mental health, economy, loss of businesses and loss of jobs which could result in even more casualties in the future.

Of course, there is a risk that opening up schools will cause casualties. Boris Johnson along with the chief medical officer Chris Whitty expressed this vehemently. They are not ignoring the recommendations of SAGE, they are acting cautiously with those recommendations in mind.

Contrary to media lies regarding Chris Whitty's objections to the schools returning on March 8th, he said children had been badly disadvantaged by schools having to stop face-to-face teaching so he was "completely in favour of the move and was surprised it had been reported, given I had denied it."

"It is an illustration of the toxic debate that has surrounded the re-opening of schools with scientists and teaching unions arguing aggressively about what the evidence shows."
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 08:59:00 pm by Bentley Bullet »

Ldr

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #46 on February 23, 2021, 02:50:23 pm by Ldr »
Ldr.

Labour don't have Corbyn in charge now. The Tories are still ahead in the polls. Johnson is ahead of Starmer as Best PM.

Clearly Johnson is NOT indefensible.

I can only speak for myself and to me he is indefensible. Though I note very few Labour members (not voters) will admit they were wrong about electing Corbyn leader. I know you didn't BST btw

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #47 on February 23, 2021, 02:59:58 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
I entirely agree Ldr, but that's down to them and their consciences. Many of them weren't Labour members before they joined specifically to elect Corbyn. Strange times, those were.

albie

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #48 on February 23, 2021, 03:43:42 pm by albie »
BB,

The discussion in SAGE modelled different scenarios in relation to relaxing lockdown;
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1363888315997556740

It is not a matter of measuring after the event, it is a matter of forecasting likely impacts using predictive tools.
The recommendations from SAGE are based upon a risk analysis, so that Government can make informed choices about risk.

Johnson does not understand risk assessment, and wants to give a positive spin on all decisions taken.
You cannot read the SAGE minutes, or the detailed modelling summary, and conclude he is "acting cautiously with those recommendations in mind"....the documents make this clear.

You can be in favour of the opening of schools, for the benefit of the kids, but still think the timing is wrong and opening to all on the same day is a mistake.
That's where I am!

Filo

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #49 on February 23, 2021, 04:02:55 pm by Filo »
The Easter Holidays begin on 26th March, 3 weeks after the schools starting back, add that to the 2 week easter break and we have 5 extra weeks to get the numbers down, it would be better in my opinion waiting until after Easter to go back and get those 3 weeks back during the summer holidays

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #50 on February 23, 2021, 04:07:37 pm by Bentley Bullet »
Albie. SAGE is chaired by the Government Chief Scientific Adviser, Sir Patrick Vallance and co-chaired by the Chief Medical Officer, Professor Chris Whitty. BOTH were in attendance at yesterday's bulletin from Downing Street and BOTH vehemently agreed with the proposed plan of exiting lockdown.

That might not be good enough for you, but it is for me.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #51 on February 23, 2021, 04:11:37 pm by Bentley Bullet »
The Easter Holidays begin on 26th March, 3 weeks after the schools starting back, add that to the 2 week easter break and we have 5 extra weeks to get the numbers down, it would be better in my opinion waiting until after Easter to go back and get those 3 weeks back during the summer holidays

The schools are open for three weeks and then closed for two weeks. The two weeks closure will be a natural firebreak.

Filo

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #52 on February 23, 2021, 04:22:06 pm by Filo »
The Easter Holidays begin on 26th March, 3 weeks after the schools starting back, add that to the 2 week easter break and we have 5 extra weeks to get the numbers down, it would be better in my opinion waiting until after Easter to go back and get those 3 weeks back during the summer holidays

The schools are open for three weeks and then closed for two weeks. The two weeks closure will be a natural firebreak.

But the 3 weeks open will be a natural vector, why not start from a lower figure than possibly have that figure increase by three weeks and then have only a 2 week natural firebreak. I’m no expert by a long long way but that makes sense to me

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #53 on February 23, 2021, 04:27:27 pm by Bentley Bullet »
I don't know, I'm no expert either, but that's what the experts have said. I trust them.

drfchound

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #54 on February 23, 2021, 04:28:48 pm by drfchound »
So in essence, the government ARE following the scientific advice here which they often get accused of not doing.

Filo

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #55 on February 23, 2021, 04:57:43 pm by Filo »
So in essence, the government ARE following the scientific advice here which they often get accused of not doing.

You missed where a I said in my opinion?

albie

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #56 on February 23, 2021, 05:40:04 pm by albie »
BB,

Both Whitty and Vallance are bound by collective responsibility, so the way in which their individual opinions are shown in the SAGE meetings is not always the same as the public face.
That is just a given in these situations.

This is the advice TO SAGE;
The discussion in SAGE modelled different scenarios in relation to relaxing lockdown;
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1363888315997556740

Here are the recommendations in the SAGE minutes;
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/963366/S1082_SAGE__79_Minutes.pdf

Points 32 and 33 cut to the chase.

To answer Hound, no they are not following the SAGE consensus, they are cherrypicking the science.
It helps if you actually read the links before posting.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #57 on February 23, 2021, 05:52:04 pm by Bentley Bullet »
Albie, I'll tell you what. You believe what you want to believe and I'll believe what I want to believe. I'm quite happy looking at the positives and you're quite happy looking at the negatives. I'm looking ahead to a good future, you're looking ahead to a bleak one.


drfchound

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #58 on February 23, 2021, 08:12:59 pm by drfchound »
So in essence, the government ARE following the scientific advice here which they often get accused of not doing.

You missed where a I said in my opinion?




I havent even read your post.
Its not all about you.

drfchound

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Re: Schools Fully Open 8th March
« Reply #59 on February 23, 2021, 08:15:16 pm by drfchound »
BB,

Both Whitty and Vallance are bound by collective responsibility, so the way in which their individual opinions are shown in the SAGE meetings is not always the same as the public face.
That is just a given in these situations.

This is the advice TO SAGE;
The discussion in SAGE modelled different scenarios in relation to relaxing lockdown;
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1363888315997556740

Here are the recommendations in the SAGE minutes;
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/963366/S1082_SAGE__79_Minutes.pdf

Points 32 and 33 cut to the chase.

To answer Hound, no they are not following the SAGE consensus, they are cherrypicking the science.
It helps if you actually read the links before posting.




Albie, i seldomly read links on this thread.
Whenever i have done, invariably they are of a very biased nature.

 

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