The Climate Crisis

[River Don]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/17/global-oil-demand-could-exceed-pre-covid-levels-without-clean-energy-moves

The International Energy Authority are expecting an unprecedented surge in oil consumption as we emerge from the pandemic.

Within a couple of years we will exceed pre-pandemic levels of consumption, going above 100 million barrels a day for the first time. The pandemic slump in oil consumption will prove to be just a blip.

Be under no illusion this is a far greater crisis than the one we are currently so concerned with.

The Covid thread on this forum has been going strongly all year. I expect this one to drop away very rapidly, starkly demonstrating the lack of concern that surrounds this urgent issue.

[Bentley Bullet]

If they can find a way to blame Boris the lefties will make it their next port of call. Be patient RD.

[SydneyRover]

Totally agree with you RD, I feel many think it is not their problem and expect that others deal with it as with most difficult decisions. What is not palatable to many is that this is both a personal and political challenge.

[scawsby steve]

My conscience is clear; my carbon footprint is zero.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Genuine question SS (very sad that we have to write that these days...). How have you managed that and how do you measure it?

[Filo]

My conscience is clear; my carbon footprint is zero.

No ones carbon footprint is zero, everday items are manufactured by using carbon emissions in some form or other

[albie]

Bit of creative accounting going on from Scawsby here.

If he can post on here, he has a carbon footprint.
How big his carbon footprint is, that's a different question.

[Filo]

Bit of creative accounting going on from Scawsby here.

If he can post on here, he has a carbon footprint.
How big his carbon footprint is, that's a different question.

Exactly

[belton rover]

I think Scawsby might be thinking that ‘Carbon’ is an expensive footwear brand and, being from Scawsby, he’s never had a pair.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

As individuals there's not too much we can do as society needs a huge change to solve it.

There are too many conflicting strategies on climate change unfortunately.  Something has to change significantly to solve it. It won't happen in our lifetimes I doubt.

[River Don]

As individuals there's not too much we can do as society needs a huge change to solve it.

There are too many conflicting strategies on climate change unfortunately.  Something has to change significantly to solve it. It won't happen in our lifetimes I doubt.

Given a lot of us on here probably have another 30 years or so, it's got to be well on the way to being solved in our lifetimes. Otherwise at the rate its going, it'll be too late.

I'm sorry to say, I don't think we will fix it. The reason demand for oil is rising is because developing countries have growing populations that are becoming more wealthy. Its nigh on impossible to do anything about that. The small reductions in carbon emissions achieved in the west are not enough to compensate.

Today the government has slashed the subsidy on electric vehicles, in the same year they have held fuel tax.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/18/uk-slashes-grants-for-electric-car-buyers-while-increasing-petrol-vehicle-support

[albie]

Looks like its game over for the bottom trawlers, if this is sound;
https://time.com/5947430/bottom-trawling-carbon-emissions-study/

The reduced subsidy for EV that RD mentions is aimed at the high end buyers.

[BillyStubbsTears]

We cannot prevent fossil fuel use in the developing world. Practically or morally. So we have a need to develop huge carbon capture technology very rapidly.

[albie]

Disagree with the assumptions behind that, BST.

The objective is to replace fossil based consumption with renewable options. This will have effect once the latter is cheaper than the former.

Think of how mobile tech bypassed landlines in Africa.
Same thing is happening with renewable energy, and will happen with electric vehicles at scale and at exponential pace.

Carbon capture is a sideshow, and those who go down that route will have stranded assets on their books as the tech coming down the cost curve isolates them.

[drfchound]

As individuals there's not too much we can do as society needs a huge change to solve it.

There are too many conflicting strategies on climate change unfortunately.  Something has to change significantly to solve it. It won't happen in our lifetimes I doubt.

Given a lot of us on here probably have another 30 years or so, it's got to be well on the way to being solved in our lifetimes. Otherwise at the rate its going, it'll be too late.

I'm sorry to say, I don't think we will fix it. The reason demand for oil is rising is because developing countries have growing populations that are becoming more wealthy. Its nigh on impossible to do anything about that. The small reductions in carbon emissions achieved in the west are not enough to compensate.

Today the government has slashed the subsidy on electric vehicles, in the same year they have held fuel tax.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/18/uk-slashes-grants-for-electric-car-buyers-while-increasing-petrol-vehicle-support

Nice that the UN Climate Conference is named after our very own James Coppinger.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I genuinely hope you are right Albie. I'm sceptical that developing countries will be able to develop carbon-free power sources quickly but I admit I'm no expert - that's a gut instinct.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

As individuals there's not too much we can do as society needs a huge change to solve it.

There are too many conflicting strategies on climate change unfortunately.  Something has to change significantly to solve it. It won't happen in our lifetimes I doubt.

Given a lot of us on here probably have another 30 years or so, it's got to be well on the way to being solved in our lifetimes. Otherwise at the rate its going, it'll be too late.

I'm sorry to say, I don't think we will fix it. The reason demand for oil is rising is because developing countries have growing populations that are becoming more wealthy. Its nigh on impossible to do anything about that. The small reductions in carbon emissions achieved in the west are not enough to compensate.

Today the government has slashed the subsidy on electric vehicles, in the same year they have held fuel tax.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/18/uk-slashes-grants-for-electric-car-buyers-while-increasing-petrol-vehicle-support

I don't disagree and I said that being 33 myself, but I just cannot see it for the reasons BST mentions and the power of those with vested interests in oil etc (including most of our pensions I expect).

It's not just fuel but energy (theoretically easier) and other aspects - cotton, steel, plastics etc.  The more we produce the more damage.

And this is where policies conflict isn't it?
The government wants to reduce emissions but reduces the grants for EVs - disappointing, they also are not subsidising a charging infrastructure anything like enouth.  Labour want to privatise a steel company if possible, but also reduce emissions from a blast furnace - it isn't compatible.

I looked at an electric car on my next vehicle options but for a family car it just doesn't work.

[wilts rover]

Labour want to privatise a steel company if possible, but also reduce emissions from a blast furnace - it isn't compatible.

Sweden have done it - using hydrogen

https://www.rechargenews.com/transition/-world-first-as-hydrogen-used-to-power-commercial-steel-production/2-1-799308

[scawsby steve]

Genuine question SS (very sad that we have to write that these days...). How have you managed that and how do you measure it?

I suppose I'm just talking about personal choices. I no longer smoke, no longer drive a car, no longer use buses, and no longer travel on planes.

However, I admit there are other reasons involved for these decisions as well.

[drfchound]

Labour want to privatise a steel company if possible, but also reduce emissions from a blast furnace - it isn't compatible.

Sweden have done it - using hydrogen

https://www.rechargenews.com/transition/-world-first-as-hydrogen-used-to-power-commercial-steel-production/2-1-799308

That is an interesting article wilts.....and yet on the same page is an another article telling us that the amount of wind and solar power required is immense.
It shows how difficult any transition is going to be.

[scawsby steve]

I think Scawsby might be thinking that ‘Carbon’ is an expensive footwear brand and, being from Scawsby, he’s never had a pair.

I'll have you know, Belton, that everyone in Scawsby walks round in Gucci shoes.

The fact that they're all nicked is of no consequence.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Labour want to privatise a steel company if possible, but also reduce emissions from a blast furnace - it isn't compatible.

Sweden have done it - using hydrogen

https://www.rechargenews.com/transition/-world-first-as-hydrogen-used-to-power-commercial-steel-production/2-1-799308

Wilts if you read it they aren't replacing blast furnaces with it but the furnaces within other areas (different science and end product) a step but not the full one.

[normal rules]

This virus has had some positive effects on the global climate.
I can only give an example of this very close to home. My wife works for the local council in children’s services. She used to drive around the county clocking up circa 700 miles a month. Since lockdown she has worked form home and conducted meetings with families and other professionals online. She has been told in no un certain terms that her working life is likely to never return to how it used to be. This is the same story across many areas of Lincolnshire County Council staff we are told.  We have got rid of a car going down to being a single car family. I don’t know the exact carbon reduction in this , but it must be significant . She has worked form home for a whole year now so that’s about 8500 miles less travelled in a two litre diesel car. That’s about 1700 kg of co2.

[normal rules]

The sooner the jump to hydrogen is made the better, I believe battery cars will just be a stepping stone to get there.

[drfchound]

This virus has had some positive effects on the global climate.
I can only give an example of this very close to home. My wife works for the local council in children’s services. She used to drive around the county clocking up circa 700 miles a month. Since lockdown she has worked form home and conducted meetings with families and other professionals online. She has been told in no un certain terms that her working life is likely to never return to how it used to be. This is the same story across many areas of Lincolnshire County Council staff we are told.  We have got rid of a car going down to being a single car family. I don’t know the exact carbon reduction in this , but it must be significant . She has worked form home for a whole year now so that’s about 8500 miles less travelled in a two litre diesel car. That’s about 1700 kg of co2.

Probably that scenario will apply to loads of people NR.
Even as a retired person, my mileage last year was only 60% of what I usually do and my wife’s car only did 1000 miles instead of the usual 4000.
Lots of businesses have latched on to the fact that they won’t need as many people to go into the office and staff will continue to work from home.
Will we even need to continue with the HS2 project when the last year has shown how business meetings can be done on zoom.

[normal rules]

Talking of hs2. My youngest son works for PWC in Birmingham. He is most definitely a millennial, and travels to London often by train for business purposes. He does not get hs2 at all. Thinks it’s a waste of money. It makes me wonder which contracts the govt have their finger in and who stands to make serious dough out of it.

[albie]

On the matter of hydrogen, it is investigated on R4 in "The Bottom Line" at 8.30 tonight.

Green hydrogen is a very small fraction of the hydrogen production at present.
More likely as a natural gas replacement than a transport fuel for cars maybe!

[SydneyRover]

The increasing efficiency of renewables will help in making the transition from traditional forms of energy production.

''Solar panel efficiency is a measure of the amount of sunlight (irradiation) which falls on the surface of a solar panel and is converted into electricity. Due to the many advances in photovoltaic technology over recent years, the average panel conversion efficiency has increased from 15% to well over 20%. This large jump in efficiency resulted in the power rating of a standard size panel to increase from 250W up to 370W''

https://www.cleanenergyreviews.info/blog/most-efficient-solar-panels

[ravenrover]

Genuine question SS (very sad that we have to write that these days...). How have you managed that and how do you measure it?

I suppose I'm just talking about personal choices. I no longer smoke, no longer drive a car, no longer use buses, and no longer travel on planes.

However, I admit there are other reasons involved for these decisions as well.

I can confirm that SS has never been a believer in using buses, mainly because he always missed the last bus from Donny of a night. Often saw him with his mop of hair and Crombie making his slow way along York Road. I'm guessing the hair and crombie are long gone but not the aversion to public transport 

[wilts rover]

Labour want to privatise a steel company if possible, but also reduce emissions from a blast furnace - it isn't compatible.

Sweden have done it - using hydrogen

https://www.rechargenews.com/transition/-world-first-as-hydrogen-used-to-power-commercial-steel-production/2-1-799308

Wilts if you read it they aren't replacing blast furnaces with it but the furnaces within other areas (different science and end product) a step but not the full one.

Blimey give them chance, they have only just started it!

It was discussed on the radio this morning, which is how I heard about it, as the future for steel making to become mainstream in the later part of the decade. If it is then I am sure we will hear more about it.