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I asked him that very question. It’s a microcosm of the big picture of course. I am fully aware that the short term after affects of brexit are having an impact, and not necessarily a positive one. I’ll re assess things in five years. Not next week.
SR you know for someone who supposedly lives the other side of the world you seem to have taken the Brexit situation very much to heart, i don't know how much it affects you currently but its obviously enough to render you into an agitated state with it all.I'm imagining you must be feeling like someone who voted to stay out of the EEC in 1973 and again in 1975 when the decision was made to stay in the EEC, now i don't know if they were rabid about that decision for the 40 odd years that it was in place, campaigned to reverse it or just settled down to live their life and not fret about something they have no control over.By all means talk about it and let off your steam but the incredulity looks very strong in this one?Would bitter and twisted be a correct summary?
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on February 17, 2022, 07:47:34 pmBranton.You are as one with Rees-Mogg in insisting that Brexit's problems are overblown.You are as one with Gove in proposing to ignore expert opinion when it tells you stuff you do not like. Your comments ""economic experts are not particularly good" and "I, or you, therefore have just as much chance of making a correct forecast on the economic impact of Brexit as any macroecomic expert" are as ignorant as they are risible. Both could have come straight out of Gove's mouth. The economics of trade is an extremely well-founded subject with an extremely strong foundation of logical theoretical models which have been generally validated by real world findings. Pretty much every trade economist says that the effect of putting up the sort of barriers to free trade that we are doing with the EU will result in a reduction of GDP of 4-8% compared to the baseline case of if we hadn't left the EU.Dismissing that out of hand because you don't want to hear it is frankly pathetic. Have a sensible argument why they are wrong, or accept that they are likely to be right.My comments on the ability of economic experts in making economic predictions are based on scientific studies so not in the least bit ignorant. See Tetlock and Gardner "Superforecasting: The Art and Science of Predictions" the pre-eminent work in this area. This was a case study of 20,000 individuals asking them to make predictions over a period of time. Their findings confirmed previously scientifically verified studies that economists are no better at making economic predictions than well-informed amateurs.I'm neither ignoring nor dismissing the predictions out of hand but raising legitimate questions against them. Unlike yourself who is accepting these predictions unquestioningly. That is true ignorance.I do have a sensible argument/question re why they're wrong which you are deliberately choosing not to answer: "Logically why will the new but relatively tiny border costs to those companies trading with the EU lead to the UK economy being as much as 4-8% smaller than it would have been some point in the future?"I suppose you're ignoring my pretty fundamental question because, despite passionately supporting the 4-8% prediction, you haven't got a second clue as to how the numbers are arrived at and therefore can't in any meaningful way answer me.Passionately supporting a supposition, simply because it meets your expectation, but being utterly unable to explain how it is derived. Now that is truly pathetic.
Branton.You are as one with Rees-Mogg in insisting that Brexit's problems are overblown.You are as one with Gove in proposing to ignore expert opinion when it tells you stuff you do not like. Your comments ""economic experts are not particularly good" and "I, or you, therefore have just as much chance of making a correct forecast on the economic impact of Brexit as any macroecomic expert" are as ignorant as they are risible. Both could have come straight out of Gove's mouth. The economics of trade is an extremely well-founded subject with an extremely strong foundation of logical theoretical models which have been generally validated by real world findings. Pretty much every trade economist says that the effect of putting up the sort of barriers to free trade that we are doing with the EU will result in a reduction of GDP of 4-8% compared to the baseline case of if we hadn't left the EU.Dismissing that out of hand because you don't want to hear it is frankly pathetic. Have a sensible argument why they are wrong, or accept that they are likely to be right.
Quote from: danumdon on February 18, 2022, 09:39:54 amSR you know for someone who supposedly lives the other side of the world you seem to have taken the Brexit situation very much to heart, i don't know how much it affects you currently but its obviously enough to render you into an agitated state with it all.I'm imagining you must be feeling like someone who voted to stay out of the EEC in 1973 and again in 1975 when the decision was made to stay in the EEC, now i don't know if they were rabid about that decision for the 40 odd years that it was in place, campaigned to reverse it or just settled down to live their life and not fret about something they have no control over.By all means talk about it and let off your steam but the incredulity looks very strong in this one?Would bitter and twisted be a correct summary?Couldn't be further from the truth DD, I'm just showing what a crap decision it was to elect a government that would do this to the country. They must be Britain haters or have swallowed the biggest con to bring this upon a once great nation. It doesn't make any sense, it never did.edited
Quote from: SydneyRover on February 18, 2022, 10:37:36 amQuote from: danumdon on February 18, 2022, 09:39:54 amSR you know for someone who supposedly lives the other side of the world you seem to have taken the Brexit situation very much to heart, i don't know how much it affects you currently but its obviously enough to render you into an agitated state with it all.I'm imagining you must be feeling like someone who voted to stay out of the EEC in 1973 and again in 1975 when the decision was made to stay in the EEC, now i don't know if they were rabid about that decision for the 40 odd years that it was in place, campaigned to reverse it or just settled down to live their life and not fret about something they have no control over.By all means talk about it and let off your steam but the incredulity looks very strong in this one?Would bitter and twisted be a correct summary?Couldn't be further from the truth DD, I'm just showing what a crap decision it was to elect a government that would do this to the country. They must be Britain haters or have swallowed the biggest con to bring this upon a once great nation. It doesn't make any sense, it never did.edited……this from a man who left the uk years ago after telling everyone that it was f**ked.
Macron has been reported to be having to pump £2billion into EDF after capping energy prices. Surprising really seeing how they sounded off about government help to the Scunthorpe works.
Have they caught that great white shark yet?
And in the meantime last month the world coal miners produced the highest ever tonnage of coal ever for power production, China alone over 3 billion tons, just to upset Greta and Syd. We must be mad, and will have an argument over one coal mine.
Thatcher if not the biggest but certainly one of them was certainly a cheer leader and more for the creation of the single market .As far as I'm concerned anytime that women put her name to anything history tells you it was flawed , massively flawed for the vast majority of working people .50 % of working people give or take fecked it off when given the opportunity .Unlike GE's there was an alternative to the status quo , the referendum wasn't ring fenced .Enough took advantage of that and whilst it led to a Johnson government lets be clear we will be out of the EU far longer than Johnson is PM that much I do know .Yep it's a shyte show at the moment and I've even questioned my own view but it's also a long game too .We are a pretty resourceful country when our backs are against the wall and I'm sure we will be again .
Quote from: tyke1962 on February 18, 2022, 11:17:01 pmThatcher if not the biggest but certainly one of them was certainly a cheer leader and more for the creation of the single market .As far as I'm concerned anytime that women put her name to anything history tells you it was flawed , massively flawed for the vast majority of working people .50 % of working people give or take fecked it off when given the opportunity .Unlike GE's there was an alternative to the status quo , the referendum wasn't ring fenced .Enough took advantage of that and whilst it led to a Johnson government lets be clear we will be out of the EU far longer than Johnson is PM that much I do know .Yep it's a shyte show at the moment and I've even questioned my own view but it's also a long game too .We are a pretty resourceful country when our backs are against the wall and I'm sure we will be again .''In January 2018, the UK government's own Brexit analysis was leaked; it showed that UK economic growth would be stunted by 2–8% for at least 15 years following Brexit, depending on the leave scenario''How long do you need Tyke?
Quote from: SydneyRover on February 18, 2022, 11:20:54 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on February 18, 2022, 11:17:01 pmThatcher if not the biggest but certainly one of them was certainly a cheer leader and more for the creation of the single market .As far as I'm concerned anytime that women put her name to anything history tells you it was flawed , massively flawed for the vast majority of working people .50 % of working people give or take fecked it off when given the opportunity .Unlike GE's there was an alternative to the status quo , the referendum wasn't ring fenced .Enough took advantage of that and whilst it led to a Johnson government lets be clear we will be out of the EU far longer than Johnson is PM that much I do know .Yep it's a shyte show at the moment and I've even questioned my own view but it's also a long game too .We are a pretty resourceful country when our backs are against the wall and I'm sure we will be again .''In January 2018, the UK government's own Brexit analysis was leaked; it showed that UK economic growth would be stunted by 2–8% for at least 15 years following Brexit, depending on the leave scenario''How long do you need Tyke?I suppose the significant difference between us is that whilst you post links to this that and the other from publications that tell you what you want to hear .Others possibly have real life experience and voted accordingly when they were given the opportunity .It would appear that over 50% had real life experience as oppose to reading The Guardian online in Australia .Real life tends to play out at the ballot box and despite its obvious critics is pretty much final and even more so in a referendum as oppose to the rigged electoral system we have in the UK .If the EU was that great to enough of the electorate we'd still be in it .Hmm the ballot box says different but if you want to slide up to the ghost of Thatcher then knock yourself out cobber .
In the interests of balance, some encouraging news on how Brexit is stimulating pursuit of non-EU markets:https://www.rsmuk.com/ideas-and-insights/brexit-encourages-uk-pursue-international-markets-outside-eu