Tories just voted to suppress votes

[tyke1962]

In the whole of 2017, in the general election, local council elections and devolved Govt elections, there was a grand total of 16 instances of alleged postal vote fraud.

Which right wing papers do you occasionally look at Branton?

Billy we have our differences to say the least and I'm never ever going to support the majority of your views to say the least .

I'll level with you , democracy and people upholding promises is where I judge credibility .

Democracy is particularly important to me because of what occurred in 1984 and if that wasn't a lesson then what could be ? , you know my history .

It was a fateful decision and one I've always had to live with .

I will not have anyone who wants to deny it in any shape of form , fecking nobody given what a lack of democracy affected my life .

I have to make choices within the world we live in .

It's incredibly hard for me personally .

I'll work with you to get rid of these Scum bags .

But don't think I'm ever your mate or even of that Clown who currently leads the so called Labour Party .

[Branton Red]

In the whole of 2017, in the general election, local council elections and devolved Govt elections, there was a grand total of 16 instances of alleged postal vote fraud.

Which right wing papers do you occasionally look at Branton?

In answer to your question I'll occasionally take the Telegraph once a month or so.

Quick Google of 'postal vote fraud uk' brought up these 3 articles on the 1st page of results from infamous right wing publications: -

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/councillors-guilty-of-postal-votes-fraud-that-would-shame-a-banana-republic-5350422.html

www.democraticaudit.com/2019/06/28/postal-votes-and-allegations-of-electoral-fraud-in-peterboroughs-by-election/

www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/sep/06/men-jailed-attempted-postal-vote-fraud

I've already explained why I believe with addressed polling cards large-scale organized constituency-wide voter fraud at the polling station is virtually impossible - do you agree? As the above stories show attempts of such fraud do appear to be occurring at least on isolated occasions with postal voting - and you don't need to rely solely on the Daily Mail for your news to be aware of it.

Therefore my initial point stands. If the Government are serious about reducing opportunity for voter fraud they would be better looking at the postal voting system rather than insisting on photo-ID at the polling station a policy which I suspect, being a right wing nut job, is being put in place to reduce Labour voter turnout.

[BillyStubbsTears]

So after firmly asserting that postal vote fraud was rife, you Google up two stories from 17 years ago and a racist  allegation from Farage that was investigated with nothing being found?

[Branton Red]

What I actually said was "If the Government was really interested in reducing voter fraud they'd be better off looking to reform/reduce postal voting where there may be some issue."

I did not say postal voter fraud was rife or anything like that at all.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Branton.

I was responding to this comment from you.

Give certain people your address and they'll come round next election time, give you a few quid and collect your postal vote from you

[glosterred]

It seems to me that some on here are quite happy to let voting fraud carry on as there was only a few alleged occurrences of it happening.  Surely one occurrence is one to many and that getting voters to prove that they are who they say they are is the way to stop it? And if you seriously want to vote then getting ID to prove that wouldn't be to much of an inconvenience.

The turnout at the last election was 67% leaving 33% who couldn't be bothered to vote. How many of the 33% are the ones complaining that they will be denied the right to vote.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Do you think 1 death from COVID is 1 too many and therefore we should take massively disproportionate action to make sure that one death doesn't happen?

[ravenrover]

It seems to me that some on here are quite happy to let voting fraud carry on as there was only a few alleged occurrences of it happening.  Surely one occurrence is one to many and that getting voters to prove that they are who they say they are is the way to stop it? And if you seriously want to vote then getting ID to prove that wouldn't be to much of an inconvenience.

The turnout at the last election was 67% leaving 33% who couldn't be bothered to vote. How many of the 33% are the ones complaining that they will be denied the right to vote.

In what form do you think that ID would be? The only photo ID my Mum had was her bus pass

[glosterred]

Do you think 1 death from COVID is 1 too many and therefore we should take massively disproportionate action to make sure that one death doesn't happen?

I think that attempting to subverting democracy is important and therefore to ensure we get the correct result at the ballot box then voter ID and proving who you are is important.

[glosterred]

It seems to me that some on here are quite happy to let voting fraud carry on as there was only a few alleged occurrences of it happening.  Surely one occurrence is one to many and that getting voters to prove that they are who they say they are is the way to stop it? And if you seriously want to vote then getting ID to prove that wouldn't be to much of an inconvenience.

The turnout at the last election was 67% leaving 33% who couldn't be bothered to vote. How many of the 33% are the ones complaining that they will be denied the right to vote.

In what form do you think that ID would be? The only photo ID my Mum had was her bus pass

I’m sure your mums bus pass would be acceptable, as would many other types of photo IDs. But no doubt if voters are determined to vote then getting some sort of photo ID would not prove to difficult for most.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Do you think 1 death from COVID is 1 too many and therefore we should take massively disproportionate action to make sure that one death doesn't happen?

I think that attempting to subverting democracy is important and therefore to ensure we get the correct result at the ballot box then voter ID and proving who you are is important.

I agree that protecting democracy is important.

Which is why I profoundly disagree with actions that every independent assessment says will disenfranchise very large numbers of people.

Look at it this way. If my entire house was infested with woodworm, i would need to take some pretty drastic action. But it would be an over reaction to use a 12 bore shotgun if the only problem I had was the occasional silverfish.

[ravenrover]

It seems to me that some on here are quite happy to let voting fraud carry on as there was only a few alleged occurrences of it happening.  Surely one occurrence is one to many and that getting voters to prove that they are who they say they are is the way to stop it? And if you seriously want to vote then getting ID to prove that wouldn't be to much of an inconvenience.

The turnout at the last election was 67% leaving 33% who couldn't be bothered to vote. How many of the 33% are the ones complaining that they will be denied the right to vote.

In what form do you think that ID would be? The only photo ID my Mum had was her bus pass

I’m sure your mums bus pass would be acceptable, as would many other types of photo IDs. But no doubt if voters are determined to vote then getting some sort of photo ID would not prove to difficult for most.

But that was my question, what is ie examples of , photo ID that would be acceptable?

[Branton Red]

Branton.

I was responding to this comment from you.

Give certain people your address and they'll come round next election time, give you a few quid and collect your postal vote from you so you don't even have to bother with that either

Ah ok Billy I can see how you would interpret that post the way you did. Badly and glibly written I concede but what I was trying to get across was voter apathy and financial incentive together with the inherent nature of postal ballots makes them susceptible to fraud. (Not implying drfchound would engage in such behaviour of course).

And postal votes which are filled out in private and can be posted by anyone are inherently more susceptible to fraud against going in person with a self-addressed voting card and filling your ballot paper in alone in a polling booth. Not just to mass voter frauds (which have been attempted since postal voting was expanded) but also on a smaller scale - imagine a domineering, bullying head of a household (generally male) insisting all vote the way he wants. Not difficult there are some nasty people out there.

Therefore it's my belief, just to repeat myself, that the Government if it truly wants to reduce voter fraud should look at postal voting ahead of polling station voting. I'm still struggling to see why that opinion makes me right wing or in hoc to right wing media. How is this a tribal political topic??

I agree wholeheartedly with you that any reform shouldn't disenfranchise a large number of people hence why I'm against voter ID. I'd also be against postal vote reform taking the ability to vote away from the frail, elderly, disabled or temporarily incapacitated (not least as I fall into that last category right now!).

[SydneyRover]

Ant legislation to bring in voter id should be accompanied with compulsory voting.

[Branton Red]

Sorry Sydney I disagree - in a democracy you should have the right to abstain.

[SydneyRover]

You can by putting a line through it, but compulsory voting would dispel the argument that tories are doing  trump.

[Branton Red]

What punishment would you impose on people who didn't turn up to vote?

[SydneyRover]

Not the question

[drfchound]

Ant legislation to bring in voter id should be accompanied with compulsory voting.

What punishment would you impose on people who didn't turn up to vote?

Don’t hold your breath for an answer.
It is a fair question you ask given that SR suggested compulsory voting.

[tyke1962]

Not the question

You should see the comments from Rachel Reeves the Shadow Chancellor that's come to light Sydney .

It's a different angle on voter suppression but it is voter suppression in my opinion .

It's pretty disgusting really but I'm pretty certain you'll see it differently .

[Axholme Lion]

What punishment would you impose on people who didn't turn up to vote?

Take away their right to vote. 

[glosterred]

Ex-Labour MP told to pay taxpayer £3,835 for breaking rules to sway 2019 election result express.co.uk/news/politics/… Another one @Keir_Starmer Are you going to kick her out for misbehaving as you promised?

From Twitter @helen_spirit1

[ravenrover]

And Sunak has just written off how much?

[glosterred]

Lots on here don’t like the idea of voter ID, the Labour Party don’t like it. But in Wakefield you need it to vote for the Labour candidate

https://twitter.com/RobParsonsNorth/status/1525812793143971842

[drfchound]

Lots on here don’t like the idea of voter ID, the Labour Party don’t like it. But in Wakefield you need it to vote for the Labour candidate

https://twitter.com/RobParsonsNorth/status/1525812793143971842

   Surely not!!

[phil old leake]

How many people don’t have a form of identity

All this talk about it disenfranchising some groups is a poor argument

It would depend on what kind of Identity would be acceptable

[drfchound]

You can by putting a line through it, but compulsory voting would dispel the argument that tories are doing  trump.

Isn’t compulsory voting a bit of a far right, fascist type of thing?

[albie]

Lots on here don’t like the idea of voter ID, the Labour Party don’t like it. But in Wakefield you need it to vote for the Labour candidate

https://twitter.com/RobParsonsNorth/status/1525812793143971842

Unfortunately, this is correct.

Labour members in Wakefield were required to show photo ID before voting in the rigged choice of candidate.

The shortlist of two outsiders was imposed by Labour HQ against the wishes of Wakefield Labour.

Ironically, the Labour Party OPPOSES voter ID requirements because many do not have up to date photo ID, and it reduces democratic integrity by preventing legitimate votes being cast.

Utterly shameful from Starmer and Co.

[glosterred]

Lots on here don’t like the idea of voter ID, the Labour Party don’t like it. But in Wakefield you need it to vote for the Labour candidate

https://twitter.com/RobParsonsNorth/status/1525812793143971842

Unfortunately, this is correct.

Labour members in Wakefield were required to show photo ID before voting in the rigged choice of candidate.

The shortlist of two outsiders was imposed by Labour HQ against the wishes of Wakefield Labour.

Ironically, the Labour Party OPPOSES voter ID requirements because many do not have up to date photo ID, and it reduces democratic integrity by preventing legitimate votes being cast.

Utterly shameful from Starmer and Co.

So are the Labour Party being two faced about this?

[Ldr]

It’s an honest mistake made in good faith………..