Ukraine

[BobG]

Scawsby - take a look at the position of HIS government on refugees.

Take a look at the failure to sanction a huge host of Putin supporting oligarchs.

Take a look at the failure to implement a recommendation from his own bloody review that the beneficial owners of expensive UK properties be disclosed. Can't think why he wouldn't  have done that...

Take a look at the failure in a decade of Tory government to tackle the laundering of dirty Russian money in the UK. And guess who the owners of that money support?!

BobG

[Bentley Bullet]

But your position is hypothetical  It was, and is, impossible for those two to lead any government. Whereas rhe point of my post above is that we really do have a comedian leading rhis country now. You comment on fantasies BB. The rest of the contributors to this thread comment on realities.

BobG

It wouldn't have been hypothetical if most people didn't share my opinion of them. They would have been leading our country FFS.

 

[scawsby steve]

Scawsby - take a look at the position of HIS government on refugees.

Take a look at the failure to sanction a huge host of Putin supporting oligarchs.

Take a look at the failure to implement a recommendation from his own bloody review that the beneficial owners of expensive UK properties be disclosed. Can't think why he wouldn't  have done that...

BobG

Come on, Bob, none of that was the reason for your first post. You were political point scoring, and you know it.

[BobG]

Oh for Gods sake BB. They were never going to form a government in a million years. Move on man! That's not even fish and chip wrapping now. The world is a different place. Please, try to keep up. It'll probably even help your blood pressure

BobG

[DonnyOsmond]

Can the thread get back on topic.

Doesn't need to be derailed by people wanting to shag political parties.

[BobG]

Scawsby - take a look at the position of HIS government on refugees.

Take a look at the failure to sanction a huge host of Putin supporting oligarchs.

Take a look at the failure to implement a recommendation from his own bloody review that the beneficial owners of expensive UK properties be disclosed. Can't think why he wouldn't  have done that...

BobG

Come on, Bob, none of that was the reason for your first post. You were political point scoring, and you know it.


[/quote

I bloody well was not Sreve. I was trying, obviously badly, to make clear a very, very serious problem for this country. We are being laughed at even in bloody Colombia!

BobG

[normal rules]

Once again a thread disintegrates into a point scoring exercise on left right politics.
On this, of all threads,  At a time, for once, when nations and organisations are uniting together for the common good.
Come on men.we are better than this.

[scawsby steve]

Once again a thread disintegrates into a point scoring exercise on left right politics.
On this, of all threads,  At a time, for once, when nations and organisations are uniting together for the common good.
Come on men.we are better than this.

Well said, NR.

[Bentley Bullet]

Once again a thread disintegrates into a point scoring exercise on left right politics.
On this, of all threads,  At a time, for once, when nations and organisations are uniting together for the common good.
Come on men.we are better than this.

It appears we're not better than this, and what is worse, we are not much better at pointing a finger in the right direction of where it started either!

[wilts rover]

I have said it many times but it still holds true.

There are people on this forum who have never criticised Alexander de Pfellel Johnson, for any of his actions, lies or corruption. But will belittle, criticise and attack those who do. The topic doesn't matter when defending their 'leader'.

[belton rover]

Bob has quite a history of accusing people of things he is guilty of.

As for the Bob/Bentley jokes, either laugh at them both(as I did) or condemn them both. But how anyone can treat one with disgust and have no comment on the other is absolutely beyond me.
Well actually, it isn’t beyond me - it’s crystal clear why.

[roversdude]

Louis doing his bit

Louis Tomlinson cancels shows in Moscow and Kyiv
Pop singer Louis Tomlinson has cancelled his shows in Moscow and Kyiv due to the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
The former member of British boyband One Direction said the safety of his fans is his "priority".

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/609530/

[wilts rover]

There are about 500 oligarchs surrounding Vladimir Putin who collectively have about the same wealth as the rest of the Russian population combined. Much of that wealth is stashed in London.

https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1498390335210369039

[albie]

Johnson is Vlad's branch manager in the UK, washing the proceeds of kleptocracy for the oligarchs.

You can read a bit more here (referenced with links) for those who like a bit more detail;
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/uk-russia-sanctions-ukraine-not-enough-boris-johnson/

Still, those who voted for Bozo knew that when they gave him their support, did they not?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Putin's spokesman today said that the sanctions won't hurt him personally as all he owns is a small flat in Moscow and a trailer.

It was a bright cold day in February and the clocks were striking 13.

[SydneyRover]

Nationalism and money stashed in London ......... hmmmm

[BillyStubbsTears]

Johnson is Vlad's branch manager in the UK, washing the proceeds of kleptocracy for the oligarchs.

You can read a bit more here (referenced with links) for those who like a bit more detail;
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/uk-russia-sanctions-ukraine-not-enough-boris-johnson/

Still, those who voted for Bozo knew that when they gave him their support, did they not?

The oligarchs who pour money into the Tory party call London "The Laundromat". It's where their shit gets washed spotlessly clean.

[albie]

I forgot to say that the Open Democracy article was written a few days ago, and the context is moving.

The point is the link through to the background references.
Sorry it is a bit long winded, but some things are complicated and require a bit of effort to understand.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Putin's spokesman by the way, looks like a 60 year old Rotherham fan.

[SydneyRover]

''‘It started with Polish mums’: Yorkshire comes together to help Ukraine
An appeal in Leeds for donations to help desperate Ukrainians has created a multinational army of volunteers''

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/28/it-started-with-polish-mums-yorkshire-comes-together-to-help-ukraine

[SydneyRover]

Compared to this .......

A Ukrainian woman and her 15-year-old diabetic daughter say they are feeling increasingly distraught after escaping the conflict in Ukraine only to be blocked from a visa the UK government announced on Sunday evening for which they are eligible.

Yakiv Voloshchuk, 60, a British citizen, rescued his wife, Oksana Voloshchuk, 41 and their daughter, Veronika Voloshchuk, from Poland on 26 February.

He drove from his home in London to the Polish border and waited for them to get across Ukraine’s border with Poland. He then did a return 24-hour journey by road across Europe before reaching Paris on Sunday where he hoped he would get the green light from British officials to bring his wife and daughter on the last leg of the journey to the UK.

The family hoped it would be straightforward to reach the UK, especially after the publication of new Home Office guidance giving permission for some immediate family members of British citizens to apply free of charge to join their loved ones in the UK.

But when Oksana and Veronika tried to apply for the new visa online they were blocked from proceeding unless they paid thousands of pounds, even though the application is supposed to be free.

“We just don’t know what to do,” Voloshchuk told the Guardian on Monday morning. “My wife’s bank account in Ukraine is frozen. We have booked into a hotel in Paris for a couple of days but I want to bring my family back to the UK to my home in London.

“We are getting very worried about my daughter because she is type 1 diabetic and is running out of insulin. We also don’t have a lot of money for food. She needs to eat regularly.”

[BillyStubbsTears]

So much for targetting military targets, Russia is now shelling built up civilian areas, it had to come I suppose just adds to the list of war crimes

Classic terror tactics.

Hitler found civilian populations are prepared to endure an awful lot. It might even have a galvanising effect.

Not only Hitler's mistake.

The Allies dropped 50 tonnes of high explosives on Germany for every 1 tonne Hitler fired at the UK. There's no evidence that it significantly harmed German civilian morale.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I see Sberbank shares dropped by 70% on the London stock exchange today.

Which raises a big question.

What the f**k us Russia's largest bank doing still being allowed to trade on the London stock exchange?

[River Don]

So much for targetting military targets, Russia is now shelling built up civilian areas, it had to come I suppose just adds to the list of war crimes

Classic terror tactics.

Hitler found civilian populations are prepared to endure an awful lot. It might even have a galvanising effect.

Not only Hitler's mistake.

The Allies dropped 50 tonnes of high explosives on Germany for every 1 tonne Hitler fired at the UK. There's no evidence that it significantly harmed German civilian morale.

I wouldn't dispute the Allies used the same tactics on Nazi Germany.

Germany made a mistake of targeting London when really focussing on military and industrial sites might well have brought them success in invading Britain.

In this case though, the primary objective of the Russians is to break the Ukrainian people. Still shocking to see footage of cluster bomb attacks on the news, I fear it will get worse. They know they have thermobaric missle launchers over there now.

My best mate is convinced he will use nuclear in someway, perhaps damaging a powerstation or directly within Ukraine. Christ knows how we'd react to that.

[albie]

Well, bugger me......the Russia Report from 2019 has turned up again, the one they didn't want anyone to see so they delayed publication for ages;
https://isc.independent.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/CCS207_CCS0221966010-001_Russia-Report-v02-Web_Accessible.pdf

Damned inconvenient that!
All over social media as well, such a pity.

Easy to forget about stuff quickly, isn't it!

[BillyStubbsTears]

If there is one positive to hang onto, it is the bizarre Russian tactics to date.

Their military doctorine is to smash opposition with massive artillery and air attacks, then sweep up the remains of the opposition with ground troops.

That results in horrific casualties on the other side.

But they absolutely haven't done that to date. They've sent the ground troops in first and taken heavy casualties by doing so. It's almost like they've gone out of their way to avoid mass civillian casualties (once the war had started) even at the expense of taking their own hits.

Even the indiscriminate rocket attacks on urban areas have been few and far between. They don't look, so far, like a strategy of pulverising the Ukraine urban areas.

That suggests that there's some reticence to go the Full Monty on war crime level behaviour.

Of course Putin might be truly insane, but at the moment it feels like a big step from him acting like this to going nuclear.

[River Don]

That huge column of vehicles heading towards Kyiv suggests things are about to be stepped up.

It does look as though they thought a swift attack would see resistance quickly crumble and they'd be able to install a compliant government with little fuss.

That initial failure doesn't look to be deterring them. The peace talks don't look promising, they are dismissing the sanctions and they are going to chuck a lot more military at it. It looks like they are prepared to go on stepping up the pressure.

[SydneyRover]

Well, bugger me......the Russia Report from 2019 has turned up again, the one they didn't want anyone to see so they delayed publication for ages;
https://isc.independent.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/CCS207_CCS0221966010-001_Russia-Report-v02-Web_Accessible.pdf

Damned inconvenient that!
All over social media as well, such a pity.

Easy to forget about stuff quickly, isn't it!

Ah yes the Intelligence Committee where johnson tried to install his stooge Grayling .....

''The clearest requirement for immediate action is for new legislation: the Intelligence
Community must be given the tools it needs and be put in the best possible position
if it is to tackle this very capable adversary, and this means a new statutory
framework to tackle espionage, the illicit financial dealings of the Russian elite and
the ‘enablers’ who support this activity''

this recommendation fell on stoney ground

[Filo]

Apparently Ukrainian airforce pilots are in Poland picking up 70 Mig-29’s donated by the EU, the Mig-29 was used by the Ukrainian Air Force, so the pilots could just get in them and fly. If true they should be in the air and routing that 40 mile column of Russian troops