Ukraine

[BobG]

That is a specious argument Bristol. You cannot single out Ukraine as a special case. If Ukraine is a cause of fear for Moscow and military opportunity for western missiles for Washington, then Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Sweden, Finland, Britain, Germany and several others fall into the exact same category. There is nothing to distinguish a missile from Kiev from one from any of those other places. None of 'em can be intercepted and none of 'em are far enough away to give any meaningful warning.

You are guilty of special pleading I'm afraid.

Missiles in Ukraine would be impossible to defend against.

US troops in Ukraine would make Russia v uncomfortable, edgy.

The same went for US re Cuba.

Missiles from the UK, Italy, Germany and Netherlands would be impossible to defend against.

If America wanted to put missiles in Ukraine, why haven't they put them in Estonia.

America could put a million troops in Ukraine and still risk every city at home being destroyed if one of them put a toe end over the border.

You are talking absolute nonsense over this.

I accept that you won't accept that. Because if you did, the entire case you've been remorselessly pushing for months disintegrates.

Parts of Russia, including Moscow, are closer from Ukraine.

Just because NATO hasn't used Latvia as a missile base doesn't mean it won't use Ukraine now or in the future. Being closer can mean a lot, esp with hypersonic missiles.

So, anyway, it seems you don't think the US would be bothered with Russian missiles in Cuba, or Chinese missiles in Tijuana or Ottawa. Weird.

BobG

[wilts rover]

Missed this over the weekend but a very important contribution to the debate about 'will Russia use nuclear weapons or not?'

“Nuclear weapons must not be used over Ukraine, Chinese President Xi Jinping said on Friday'

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3198505/no-nuclear-weapons-over-ukraine-chinese-president-xi-jinping-says-clear-message-russia

[Not Now Kato]

Seems BRR has one credible supporter....
 
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/L1YNmeJoGBw

[BillyStubbsTears]

Every time I start thinking that himan development from benighted ignorance is amazing...


...I remember that Katie Hopkins exists.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Missed this over the weekend but a very important contribution to the debate about 'will Russia use nuclear weapons or not?'

“Nuclear weapons must not be used over Ukraine, Chinese President Xi Jinping said on Friday'

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3198505/no-nuclear-weapons-over-ukraine-chinese-president-xi-jinping-says-clear-message-russia

That is a very important intervention by Xi. That's putting Putin back in his box.

Coincidentally, there are recent analyses that the Kremlin has massively wound in the nuclear threats over the past couple of weeks.

Remember a month ago when folk were screaming "Ukraine has to give in or...nuclear war!"

Come on down, Dominic Cummings.
Come on down Elon Musk.

[Axholme Lion]

It's strange how all the people who were bleating about the alleged amount of Covid deaths in the UK are more than happy for British pensioners to freeze to death just to prove a point on the international stage. It is the duty of the British Government to put the lives of it's own people first.

[Colin C No.3]

Sorry have I missed something?

How many British pensioners have frozen to death & where was this reported?

[BillyStubbsTears]

And where has anyone in here said they'd be happy with that outcome?

And since when did protecting a nation against a fascist aggressor equate to "making a point"? Other than inside the head of our resident fascist who is on record as having suggested that we were wrong to take on Hitler in 1939.

[Axholme Lion]

Sorry have I missed something?

How many British pensioners have frozen to death & where was this reported?

They will. it's coming as the weather gets colder.

[BobG]

Ah. You are prescient then Axholme. Bow down all ye! The future is as crystal. Forsooth our Lord is amongst us.

BobG

[wilts rover]

It's strange how all the people who were bleating about the alleged amount of Covid deaths in the UK are more than happy for British pensioners to freeze to death just to prove a point on the international stage. It is the duty of the British Government to put the lives of it's own people first.

It's also strange how people who thought we should not protect the old and vulnerable during covid 'because they are going to die anyway' have suddenly developed a conscience due to where 4% of UK gas supplies come from and when energy comapines and making £billions due to their excessive pricing & profiteering.

[BillyStubbsTears]

There is no excuse for any old person dying of cold in this country. If that happens, we have failed in our duty to them. That's a matter for Govt to attend to, making sure they are sufficiently catered for.

AL is a Putin fanboy. He wants a fascist aggressor to destroy an independent country, because that's the world he wants to live in. I genuinely thought we'd never see people with that political outlook ever dare show their views in public again after WWII, but here we are. People in the UK. Proud to be fascists.

[Metalmicky]

Russia withdrawing from Kherson...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63573387

[tommy toes]

Russia withdrawing from Kherson...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63573387

This probably means that Russia will deploy even more long range missiles to knock out as much key infrastructure in the major cities as they can.
bas**rds.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Russia withdrawing from Kherson...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63573387

This probably means that Russia will deploy even more long range missiles to knock out as much key infrastructure in the major cities as they can.
bas**rds.

Reportedly, they don't have that many left.

[normal rules]

A general or two will no doubt go missing over this, or just happen to fall off a sixth floor balcony.

[Colin C No.3]

Or killed in a car accident similar to the one Stremousov (deputy head of Kherson & installed by Putin) was?

[normal rules]

I can understand militarily why russias troops are retreating back over the Dniepro.
But their plan has a flaw. Get them Himars up near Kherson and fire everything you have at every square kilometre just the other side of the river.
Their defensive stance will be their weakness. Sitting ducks.

[Metalmicky]

Just been watching the BBC documentary Mariupol: The Peoples Story............ it's a hard watch and I don't mind saying there were a few gulps and my eyes watered.... however, I recommend people watch and absorb some of the atrocities that Putin has committed....

[SydneyRover]

I think this mindset has been slowly changing with body bags returning .....

''Grieving Russians can't believe talk of war crimes in Ukraine''


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61073897

[Colin C No.3]

I’m not a betting man (a small fib in this context) but given the continued Russian military fall backs from Ukraine & Ukraine’s seemingly ‘take back’ of Kherson, Putins ‘military manoeuvres’ & subsequent invasion of that region appears at best to have been ill advised.

No doubt military Generals heads ‘will roll’ before the inevitable will happen.

Putin will now look to ‘make his mark on history’ given his dwindling authority & days in which to make such a mark on history dwindle.

I believe he as a man & as an authoritive figure on world events ‘died’ on the battlefields of Ukraine.

‘His Generals’ will see to that.

[Filo]

The Russian stooge on this thread appears to have emulated the Russian army and withdrawn

[i_ateallthepies]

I guess all his time is taken up with trying to find ANY media outlet who can make it look like anything other than a gross humiliation for Putin.

[BillyStubbsTears]

This is massive. Ukranian forces have played this brilliantly (if horrifically for the Russians). No storming of the city.  Just a brutal attritional attack on Russian logistics, until the Russians lost the ability to stay as a fighting force.

Winning Kherson back is a huge psychological win before winter sets in. That, combined with Xi smacking down Putin's bluster about nukes is starting to put Putin in the box where he belongs.

[i_ateallthepies]

Add to that the Russians knocking down the one remaining bridge from Kherson across the river it's as good as telling everyone they're know they can't defend on equal terms the territory they still hold.

[Filo]

The civilian population that apparently voted nearly 100% to be Russian coming onto the streets in joy welcoming the Ukrainians

[ravenrover]

I wonder despite what Zelensky has said, whether pressure may now come to call a halt from NATO. If Putin now accepts that he can't take the whole of Ukraine and settles for the regions that "voted" to rejoin Russia then possibly the end game could be insight. China has called his bluff on nukes, his Generals are going to get all the blame, but he can still claim his special exercises have been a success. Just an optimistic thought

[BillyStubbsTears]

I wonder despite what Zelensky has said, whether pressure may now come to call a halt from NATO. If Putin now accepts that he can't take the whole of Ukraine and settles for the regions that "voted" to rejoin Russia then possibly the end game could be insight. China has called his bluff on nukes, his Generals are going to get all the blame, but he can still claim his special exercises have been a success. Just an optimistic thought

Not a chance. Kherson "voted" to join Russia. Look at the celebrations there tonight.

If Ukraine is still prepared to fight, Putin cannot and must not be allowed out if this with an inch of the land he has stolen.

[SydneyRover]

Absolutely stunning victory for the Ukraine to retake Kherson in every way thinkable.

[wilts rover]

I wonder despite what Zelensky has said, whether pressure may now come to call a halt from NATO. If Putin now accepts that he can't take the whole of Ukraine and settles for the regions that "voted" to rejoin Russia then possibly the end game could be insight. China has called his bluff on nukes, his Generals are going to get all the blame, but he can still claim his special exercises have been a success. Just an optimistic thought

Nothing wrong with being optimistic Raven.

Although history tells us that Putin never accepts he is beaten. What he does is commit greater atrocities against civilians until things turn his way.

As I have said many times, Russian leaders are rarely defeated on the battlefield. They are overthrown by their own people once they get tired of fighting.