Gas Prices

[River Don]

Mate, it's about commodities. Just like it was in the 70s.

Putin is throttling the supply of gas. Mostly that is it.

We should not rely on the likes of Putin and OPEC for our energy.

[BillyStubbsTears]

You're talking about political priorities.

I agree with you that we've (the whole of Europe) f**ked up massively in hitching our wagon to gas when Putin can rig the market.

No arguments there.

My point previously had been that we have the technical capability to get off fossil fuels if we want to. They are two different issues. 

[tyke1962]

I have said for years there is a looming energy problem. BST bless him has told me no, you are getting your knickers in a twist for nothing. Well look now. Now we are at the face of it.

It's cold and hard.

We need affordable energy. Where is it coming from?

There's millions upon millions of tonnes of it underground in your City and my town .

Aye ....... If only .

[River Don]

You're talking about political priorities.

I agree with you that we've (the whole of Europe) f**ked up massively in hitching our wagon to gas when Putin can rig the market.

No arguments there.

My point previously had been that we have the technical capability to get off fossil fuels if we want to. They are two different issues. 

We are as one then. I just hope we do have those technical capabilities.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well there's one thing for sure. This crisis will force the pace of de-gasification.

We should have been subsidising renewal capability for the past decade. But we haven't. So I've wanted to have solar panels on my roof, but the economic case for me didn't remotely add up.

If grid leccy is going north of 50p/kWh because of gas prices, that totally changes the economics. I reckon a solar panel and battery system would pay for itself in 6-8 years at that price.

[DonnyOsmond]

You're talking about political priorities.

I agree with you that we've (the whole of Europe) f**ked up massively in hitching our wagon to gas when Putin can rig the market.

No arguments there.

My point previously had been that we have the technical capability to get off fossil fuels if we want to. They are two different issues. 

Switzerland haven't been hit as bad. Most of their energy comes from solar, nuclear, etc.

Imagine if we'd been more forward thinking years ago...

[BillyStubbsTears]

You're talking about political priorities.

I agree with you that we've (the whole of Europe) f**ked up massively in hitching our wagon to gas when Putin can rig the market.

No arguments there.

My point previously had been that we have the technical capability to get off fossil fuels if we want to. They are two different issues. 

Switzerland haven't been hit as bad. Most of their energy comes from solar, nuclear, etc.

Imagine if we'd been more forward thinking years ago...

I agree that we e been stupid in relying so heavily on a fuel whose price can be weaponised by an enemy. But Switzerland is a special case. 60% of their electricity is produced by hydro plants in the Alps, with water falling up to 2km vertical drop before it hits the turbines.

[River Don]

Switzerland does demonstrate the possibility of green energy though.

[wilts rover]

You're talking about political priorities.

I agree with you that we've (the whole of Europe) f**ked up massively in hitching our wagon to gas when Putin can rig the market.

No arguments there.

My point previously had been that we have the technical capability to get off fossil fuels if we want to. They are two different issues. 

Switzerland haven't been hit as bad. Most of their energy comes from solar, nuclear, etc.

Imagine if we'd been more forward thinking years ago...

I agree that we e been stupid in relying so heavily on a fuel whose price can be weaponised by an enemy. But Switzerland is a special case. 60% of their electricity is produced by hydro plants in the Alps, with water falling up to 2km vertical drop before it hits the turbines.

And we are an island with a tidal range of around 7-10m on one of the strongest tides in the world (second to Canada) that the government itself has estimated has the capability to deliver at least 20% of our electricity needs.

To date it has blocked every tidal project and current delivers exactly 0%.

https://www.renewableuk.com/page/WaveTidalEnergy

https://www.energymonitor.ai/tech/renewables/the-mystery-of-the-uks-untapped-tidal-power

[BillyStubbsTears]

Switzerland does demonstrate the possibility of green energy though.

Agreed

[BillyStubbsTears]

You're talking about political priorities.

I agree with you that we've (the whole of Europe) f**ked up massively in hitching our wagon to gas when Putin can rig the market.

No arguments there.

My point previously had been that we have the technical capability to get off fossil fuels if we want to. They are two different issues. 

Switzerland haven't been hit as bad. Most of their energy comes from solar, nuclear, etc.

Imagine if we'd been more forward thinking years ago...

I agree that we e been stupid in relying so heavily on a fuel whose price can be weaponised by an enemy. But Switzerland is a special case. 60% of their electricity is produced by hydro plants in the Alps, with water falling up to 2km vertical drop before it hits the turbines.

And we are an island with a tidal range of around 7-10m on one of the strongest tides in the world (second to Canada) that the government itself has estimated has the capability to deliver at least 20% of our electricity needs.

To date it has blocked every tidal project and current delivers exactly 0%.

https://www.renewableuk.com/page/WaveTidalEnergy

https://www.energymonitor.ai/tech/renewables/the-mystery-of-the-uks-untapped-tidal-power

Agreed.

[River Don]

I'm cutting back and cutting back.

It's getting to the point where we will have to hand our cats to the RSPCA. It is heartbreaking.

[BillyStubbsTears]

That is heartbreaking.

Martin Lewis hit the nail on the head this morning.

He said that by refusing to set out mitigating measures before now, the Govt was imposing massive psychological stress on people.

People now know what bills they are facing. But they have heard nothing from Govt about what protection they will get. What peoe HAVE heard is Signal and Truss talking about VAT and Green Levy cuts, which will shave a few percent off bills that have gone up by almost 2 fold. This is unconscionable by the Govt. They KNOW that they are going to be subsidising the bills one way or another. But they are stringing people out before announcing it.

[Nudga]

They want us on our knees. They couldn't give a f**k about us. 
Problem,reaction,solution.

Let's see what the solution is in a year or so

Ordo Ab Chao
.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Nudga mate. You have a vote. If you don't use it, THEN they don't care about you.

Meanwhile, this is a very, very annoyed man.

https://mobile.twitter.com/LBC/status/1563118241483931654

[River Don]

Kids raiding a McDonalds in Nottingham the other day. It's just a start, there will be a crime wave.

[Nudga]

Voting is an illusion to make the little people believe they have a voice.
Politics is theatre.

[River Don]

Try life under Putin Nudge.

Life in Russia is much harder than here

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Well there's one thing for sure. This crisis will force the pace of de-gasification.

We should have been subsidising renewal capability for the past decade. But we haven't. So I've wanted to have solar panels on my roof, but the economic case for me didn't remotely add up.

If grid leccy is going north of 50p/kWh because of gas prices, that totally changes the economics. I reckon a solar panel and battery system would pay for itself in 6-8 years at that price.

Spot on this.  I've wanted solar panels for some time too but being an accountant it doesn't (didn't) add up. Still unsure it does given electric won't be allowed that high but if it is.....

Very short sighted not to encourage more renewables.

Thought this was interesting and local...

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/politics/council-100-miles-away-to-take-control-of-massive-solar-farm-in-doncaster-3786971

I'm sure I read of a plan to consider one near edenthorpe too (if they can find land they aren't planning to build houses on).

[River Don]

People don't know what's coming.

Until the bills land, they will not know.

[Nudga]

Try life under Putin Nudge.

Life in Russia is much harder than here

WTF!?

[River Don]

Try life under Putin Nudge.

Life in Russia is much harder than here

WTF!?

Seriously. Their life is shite.

[Nudga]

Try life under Putin Nudge.

Life in Russia is much harder than here

WTF!?

Seriously. Their life is shite.

Yeah I know, it's been shite for years, I just don't get why you threw that in.

[River Don]

Try life under Putin Nudge.

Life in Russia is much harder than here

WTF!?

Seriously. Their life is shite.

Yeah I know, it's been shite for years, I just don't get why you threw that in.

Well, the threat is we will capitulate and then one by one democratic societies will fall to authoritarian bas**rds. It's the thin end of the wedge.

[Filo]

Mate, it's about commodities. Just like it was in the 70s.

Putin is throttling the supply of gas. Mostly that is it.

We should not rely on the likes of Putin and OPEC for our energy.

Putin maybe throttling supply causing prices to rise, but don’t forget that April’s rise in the price cap was decided last October, a few months before he invaded Ukraine, this has been coming and predicted by the experts long before the invasion, and the Government did just as they are doing now, sat on their hands!

[Sprotyrover]

Kids raiding a McDonalds in Nottingham the other day. It's just a start, there will be a crime wave.

Posters who think that we live in a Police State may be in for a huge shock this winter, the Police can barely cope now, if there is any mass civil disorder it will break 'The Thin BlueLine' their is also an exodus of highly skilled and experienced officers resigning as the Goverment has achieved it's objective of stopping folks seeing a Career in the Police as a 'Job for life' the Pension was always the big anchor that kept officers in the Policd, but they now pay 14.5% of their salary into. Pension fund which is now no better than most others.
You have every Council in The Country offering nice well paid easy to do (For a person with 6/7 years Policing experience under their belt)
You also have a large tranch of new recruits in the University scheme who are not getting Public order training and when they qualify after
3 years will move on to pastures new when they hit 'The Brick wall'
Get ready!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Mate, it's about commodities. Just like it was in the 70s.

Putin is throttling the supply of gas. Mostly that is it.

We should not rely on the likes of Putin and OPEC for our energy.

Putin maybe throttling supply causing prices to rise, but don’t forget that April’s rise in the price cap was decided last October, a few months before he invaded Ukraine, this has been coming and predicted by the experts long before the invasion, and the Government did just as they are doing now, sat on their hands!

There's a part of the price rise that's de to a rebound in the global economy, catching up after COVID. That was inevitable. But Putin's throttling of the supply to Europe is a far bigger effect.

[Panda]

I'm concerned about the inevitable call from school leaders to close schools for 1/2 days a week through winter due to not being able to afford to heat schools. They'll probably put forward the argument that online remote learning is now a thing and this wouldn't impact on kids education by keeping them off school for a few days.

Which obviously would be b*llocks.

My kids school already made a shitload from Government funding for opting to close school for weeks at a time for onsite Covid testing. Wonder where that's gone?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Somebody wants flaying alive over this.

https://mobile.twitter.com/D_Shariatmadari/status/1563496020344176640

[Branton Red]

Personally I favour Labour/Starmer's solution to this re freezing the price cap with one alteration.

I'd suggest the price cap should be fixed at say 20% higher than April with the Government supporting lower income households to meet this rise. A few reasons: -

- There's no guarantee energy prices will not remain high and the Government can't sustainably fund freezing the cap indefinitely so some rise should be put through otherwise you're just potentially delaying the economic shock till later
- Reduces cost to the state and consumers can choose whether to bear the extra cost and/or cut energy usage - by 1/6th to retain current payment levels
- Another way of reducing prices is to cut demand where those who can afford to are able to (yes I know they're global prices but the UK is a big economy) a price cap freeze wouldn't incentivise lower demand

With prices likely to increase further more money needs to be raised. I would temporarily raise the highest rate of tax now so higher earners net don't benefit/lose on average from the price freeze.

I disagree with the notion that any Government support must be fully funded. The scale of the economic crisis is too big for this. Government borrowing will have to rise to a degree - as it did with the Covid furlough scheme.

Also Government support is needed for business' who can provide evidence that their energy bills are a significant % of their pre inflation profits. Again funded by a temporary increase in Corporation Tax rates.