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Quote from: big fat yorkshire pudding on September 10, 2019, 04:19:20 pmLabour has a Brexit policy? There was me thinking it was the below;1. Criticise the government policy.2. Sit on the fence and not commit either way.END!There is a conference coming, is it not the case that the members may end up dictating the policy?Labour's members always 'dictate' the policy - by err voting for it. The Tories always democratically decide theirs by not letting anyone vote for it.
Labour has a Brexit policy? There was me thinking it was the below;1. Criticise the government policy.2. Sit on the fence and not commit either way.END!There is a conference coming, is it not the case that the members may end up dictating the policy?
So its a choice between a 2nd referendum with Labour or revoking article 50 with the Lib Dems at the moment then:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/09/liberal-democrats-poised-to-back-revoking-article-50-brexit?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tweet
Quote from: wilts rover on September 10, 2019, 04:51:03 pmSo its a choice between a 2nd referendum with Labour or revoking article 50 with the Lib Dems at the moment then:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/09/liberal-democrats-poised-to-back-revoking-article-50-brexit?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_TweetYes, but you DO see the problem Labour now has?A Labour Govt would look to renegotiate the Withdrawal Agreement with the EU and put it to a Referendum with Remain as the other option.But that leaves two massive questions.1) Will Labour then support Remain in that Referendum? How ridiculous would that look? Having negotiated a deal and then telling the country the deal shouldn't be supported.2) Will Labour support their renegotiated deal? If Labour is going to do that, how on earth will that pull back any of the 4-6million votes they have lost to the LDs and Greens in the past 8 months?Mr Rock, meet Mr Hard Place.
BST,Thornberry said exactly that on "Question Time" the other evening.It is difficult to know how to weight a prospective deal that has not yet been agreed.A guide to the next steps are set out in this graphic;https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEGtdu9WkAAn1uO.pngThe TUC speech by JC today is here;https://labour.org.uk/press/jeremy-corbyn-speech-tuc-congress/The mood music is for Cummings to revert to the May deal after pretending to have EU negotiations.The pitch will be "look we tried, but other parties and the EU have combined to keep us down".Cummings knows some Tories will go for it rather than "no deal", and some Labour right wingers will join.This is the real reason the Government "forgot" to nominate tellers when this crept in.
Quote from: wilts rover on September 10, 2019, 04:51:03 pmSo its a choice between a 2nd referendum with Labour or revoking article 50 with the Lib Dems at the moment then:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/09/liberal-democrats-poised-to-back-revoking-article-50-brexit?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_TweetYes, but you DO see the problem Labour now has?A Labour Govt would look to renegotiate the Withdrawal Agreement with the EU and put it to a Referendum with Remain as the other option.But that leaves two massive questions.1) Will Labour then support Remain in that Referendum? How ridiculous would that look? Having negotiated a deal and then telling the country the deal shouldn't be supported.2) Will Labour support their renegotiated deal? If Labour is going to do that, how on earth will that pull back any of the 4-6million votes they have lost to the LDs and Greens in the past 8 months?Mr Rock, meet Mr Hard Place.So it looks like we're going to get yet more constructive (sic) ambiguity from Corbyn. Refusing to say WHAT he'd do in the event of that Referendum occurring. And hoping that no-one asks too many questions.I guess it might work. Like 2017, both sides might think he's on their side. But we're in a very different world now, and it seems far more likely to me that both sides will think he's being untrustworthy.
PanchoIn that case, why not come out now and say that explicitly?Campaign on the clear and unequivocal platform that Labour believes the best we can do is to stay in the EU, but accepts that this is an issue which splits the country. So Labour will do its level best to renegotiate the very best deal it can. And it will not be a catastrophe if the People decide to vote for that, rather than Remain in the Referendum.Why not just say that? Loud and clear and unambiguous. It's the constructive (sic) ambiguity that does my head in. It looks like a party and a man wishing this issue didn't exist and wanting to ignore it.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on September 10, 2019, 05:29:18 pmPanchoIn that case, why not come out now and say that explicitly?Campaign on the clear and unequivocal platform that Labour believes the best we can do is to stay in the EU, but accepts that this is an issue which splits the country. So Labour will do its level best to renegotiate the very best deal it can. And it will not be a catastrophe if the People decide to vote for that, rather than Remain in the Referendum.Why not just say that? Loud and clear and unambiguous. It's the constructive (sic) ambiguity that does my head in. It looks like a party and a man wishing this issue didn't exist and wanting to ignore it.BSTI agree, what is needed is for Labour to be upfront and positive about their strategy.I was really taking issue with your assertion that to re-negotiate a deal and then campaign for something else would be "ridiculous".But yeah, clarity in Corbyn's position is what has been lacking all along, and has done severe damage to Labour's standing.
GazThen explain why there was such a spike in short deals when Johnson became PM.
''Michel Barnier: no grounds for reopening Brexit talksEU’s top negotiator tells MEPs Britain has not offered credible proposals for Irish border''MB has told MEPs there remain insufficient grounds for reopening formal negotiations over the Brexit withdrawal agreement, six months after Theresa May and the European commission closed them.In a private briefing with the European parliament’s leaders, the EU’s chief negotiator said Boris Johnson’s officials had yet to offer any “legally credible and workable” proposals to replace the Northern Irish backstop on which the two negotiating teams could build.Gosh all that work boris and his chief negotiator put in for nothing, nought, zip, zero, zilch, diddly-squat eh.Added: nada