Trump

[BillyStubbsTears]

That’s about it Filo.

Affordable houses. Decent pensions with early retirement for many. Free University education. The most peaceful era in history. A socio-political scenario where wealth was shared much more equitably than ever before. The luckiest generation in history.

And then when it all ran into the buffers, it’s that generation that has consistently voted to take all those things away from the people who are now coming to maturity. Culminating with the 65+ voters being the ones who have tipped us out of the EU and into a permanently poorer future.

Grand, eh?

[selby]

  Whoa there buddy, at 71 yrs old I am still paying higher rate of tax, plus quite a bit of stamp duty a year and the top range of council tax, and did not  vote to come out of the EU.
 Don't bite the hand that feeds you, we contribute to the housing benefit and child allowance you sprogs claim as well.
  And Macho if this government, with your generations backing, ever went to war with anyone of substance, we would lose.

[MachoMadness]

Here's the thing. Nobody's saying you don't work hard for what you get. Nobody's saying you don't deserve any of it. You absolutely do, as does every boomer who was lucky enough to get on the property ladder and raise a family. But the difference is you were far more likely to have your efforts rewarded than the kids of today are. Just assuming that people have gotten lazier is ridiculous. Look at the facts. Don't assume that just because you made it 50 years ago, the kids of today will be given the same opportunities you were given. If everyone always thought that way, we'd still be living in caves.

[BillyStubbsTears]

MM

Bang on. No-one resents the benefits that the Baby Boomer generation had. They were the product of a society that emerged out of WWII realising that we’re really were all in it together and that the way for society to progress was for everyone to have a fair share.

I was born at the very end of that era, as we were chucking that idea aside and starting to lose sight of the importance of equality of chance. I was lucky enough to be paid to go to University and to be able to buy my first house before prices went berserk. (And having bought my first house at the very height of the interest rate spike in 1992, I can say that anyone who was paying 14% interest wasn’t managing their financial affairs very sensibly - and even if they were paying that rate, wages were also rising rapidly to water down the debt).

What pisses me off is that that generation has collectively closed its eyes to what it has bequeathed to the younger generations. The idea that they were somehow better, more sensible, harder working and more deserving than the generations behind them is, frankly, obscene and ignorant. And wilfully ignoring the fact that the opportunities and protection that they enjoyed have been removed from the younger generations is disgraceful.

I teach young people. They are incomparably harder working, better educated and better organised than my generation were. I employ young people. The same goes for them. It sickens me that these people are maturing in a society that doesn’t say “work hard and you’ll be rewarded” like the one I grew up in. It says, “ work hard and you might just about scrape through, but you’ll have none of the benefits that your parents’ and grandparents’ generations had.  You’ll be saddled with debt for daring to get an education. You’ll not be able to afford to buy a house. You’ll have pitifully poor pensions. And if you drop through the cracks, you can f**k off.”

It’ll change. The younger generation will require it. But it’ll probably need the luckiest and most selfish generation in history to die off first.

[selby]

  You definitely live in a blame culture there then Billy, it must be hell waking up in a morning then.
  Not all people are the same, most of the youngsters I have come across are great, and I do mingle some of my time with youngsters, especially in sports, football and cricket.
  Houses are out of reach, Thatchers policy of selling council houses saw to that, and estate agents and solicitors going from fixed commision to a percentage fee has done the rest. They gave themselves a up to 10% rise a year for years, raising house prices and land prices. I would hazard a guess that the materials to build a house from scratch is not much more than it was in the 1960's relatively, and the labour costs somewhere near the same or even lower.
 

[BillyStubbsTears]

Selby

I wasn’t aiming anything at you personally (although having sent your post at 5pm yesterday starting this off, it’s a bit rich complaining about reactions to it.)

I’m sure you’re really an enlightened person whose heart bleeds at the economic situation the younger generation is in. But the FACT is that it is your generation that has consistently voted for parties who have enacted policies that have pulled the rug out from the younger generation. There’s no argument about that. It’s a fact. It was the pensioner vote that put the stories in power in 2010. And the Austerity policies that they enacted have massively disproportionately hit the young and protected the old. Again, no argument on that. It’s an established fact.

It’s your generation that overwhelmingly voted for Brexit, and for the most part won’t live to see the full extent of he problems that will lead to.

It’s now pretty well established that the Millennials will be the first generation in over a century who will grow up poorer than their parents and grandparents. That’s the result of the selfish decisions that your generation (collectively) have made.

[selby]

  For the record Billy I have never voted anything else but Labour in my life, but feel let down by every government that have been in power since I had a vote at 21yrs old.
  Once in the 70,s I voted for the rates association in the local elections, as I was living in Norton near Doncaster, the then highest rated place in England except for Westminster and the Doncaster ward has always been labour.
  When the few local rates councilors were elected they had no places on the committees so were unable to put forward their cost saving ideas, and the major parties stopped them getting a hold.
  That was the only time I thought that the big parties would be challenged.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Selby. As I said, my comments are about your generation as a whole, not you personally.

And I agree that Labour under Blair are as much to blame for this situation as the Tories. They were the ones who were “intensely relaxed” about a few people getting fabulously rich, but they took their eye off the fact that they were getting rich at the expense of everyone else - not pulling everyone else up with them. What the Tories have done though, is to deliberately protect your generation while throwing the shit deal at the young. That is disgraceful and deliberate politics because they know that pensioners are the only group who disproportionately vote Tory.

It’ll change. Eventually.

[idler]

Billy, I also have never voted Tory in my life. I think that you are possibly generalising a little too much. The retired generation or at least a good percentage did at least bother to turn out and vote though.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Idler.

You are focussing on the particular (you).

I’m focussing on the general (the general behaviour of pensioners as a whole).

It’s unarguable that, in general, pensioners were by far the biggest supporters of Brexit and are the the group who disproportionally support the Tories. Look at the results from the most recent opinion poll (page 1, first few rows  here. https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/8vbs3n6auc/TimesResults_180521_VI_Trackers.pdf ).

YOU might not do, but that puts you in a minority of the people of your age.

[Dutch Uncle]

Of course you are right on a national level BST, but I can confirm that Idler is not in a minority of one on the confines of this board. To say I am disappointed in the older generation re Brexit would be an understatement of colossal proportions, considering I left nearly 40 years of living in The Netherlands, working in International organisations, and now have moved unwittingly to the front line of the post brexit world.

[Filo]

I sometimes wonder if we are living in some kind of Monty Python sketch with Trump, he's now accused the Canadian bloke, meek and a lier after agreeing a statement by the G7, only to show total cowardice and jump on Airforce 1 and then issue a statement saying he's withdrawing from the statement, he could n't say it face to face, how can anyone negotiate with the idiot?

[selby]

  Filo, he is the ultimate American industrialist, he will negotiate with you if you have something he wants only, if he has the something you want, he will rob your eyes out before you get it.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Some people have been suggesting that it's not because of Trudeau he's spat the dummy out, but because of this photo being spread on social media...

https://qz.com/1301625/trump-vs-the-whole-world-is-perfectly-captured-by-this-photo-of-world-leaders/

[Filo]

Some people have been suggesting that it's not because of Trudeau he's spat the dummy out, but because of this photo being spread on social media...

https://qz.com/1301625/trump-vs-the-whole-world-is-perfectly-captured-by-this-photo-of-world-leaders/

Looks like hes getting a right bollocking from Merkel, sat there like a blubbering child

[Glyn_Wigley]

Some people have been suggesting that it's not because of Trudeau he's spat the dummy out, but because of this photo being spread on social media...

https://qz.com/1301625/trump-vs-the-whole-world-is-perfectly-captured-by-this-photo-of-world-leaders/

Looks like hes getting a right bollocking from Merkel, sat there like a blubbering child

Which is exactly why he's supposed to have taken against it. Christ knows what the North Koreans make of it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I remember thinking when Trump was elected that it might be alright if he just surrounds himself with grown-ups.

This guy is one of his top economics advisers.
https://mobile.twitter.com/mathieuvonrohr/status/1005827317007036417/video/1

Jesus. f**king. Wept.

Canada is the USA’s closest ally and biggest trading partner. Trudeau did NOTHING in his press conference other than say that Canada has the right to stand up for itself if the USA imposed tariffs on Canadian goods.

And THAT is the response? A special place in Hell? Trump showed Trudeau “courtesy” by deigning to attend a G7 meeting? The meeting came up with a “socialist” communique? (Socialist? May? Merkel? Abe? f**k me, what does that make Corbyn then?)

Let’s get this right. Trump will have thrown a f**king fit on Air Force One when those photos of him at the meeting came out. He’ll have told his advisers to go out throwing punches. And sometimes, yes, you do want to posture aggressively in international affairs. But this is about one thing only. Trump’s pride. There’s a man-child with a paper-thin ego in the White House. It is terrifying.

[BillyStubbsTears]

As Trump goes into a meeting with Kim to discuss nuclear weapons, it’s worth noting that the only two atom bombs ever used in anger were called “Fat Man” and “Little Boy.”

[MachoMadness]

Amazing all the pomp and circumstance that's gone into this meeting, for what basically seems to amount to a pinky swear. We've been here before with North Korea, though.

[Filo]

Amazing all the pomp and circumstance that's gone into this meeting, for what basically seems to amount to a pinky swear. We've been here before with North Korea, though.

Theres time for Trump to jump on Airforce One, and go into a twitter rant telling Kim to f**k off yet

[selby]

  Well, that's Kim pulled into line by the looks of it, now for the noisy neighbours and them pesky Europeans.
   Where's that peace award?

[MachoMadness]

  Well, that's Kim pulled into line by the looks of it, now for the noisy neighbours and them pesky Europeans.
   Where's that peace award?

I know you're fishing, but I'm bored so I'll bite. The wording of the agreement is very vague and doesn't pin the North Koreans down any more than they already were. They have to commit to "working towards" nuclear disarmament, which is exactly what they're have supposed to have been doing for years anyway. The main difference is concessions from the US side, notably that they won't be running military exercises in the South anymore. So this amazing negotiator actually managed to negotiate himself into a much worse position while not getting a single thing in return - nice one!

Relations with the US are temporarily thawed, which is nice, but really very little was achieved here.

[Filo]

They might have achieved some nice photos, I think Trump was keen to get some good ones for the holiday album

[selby]

  Where will that be taken Filo, in Trump's new golf hotel gardens in North Korea.
   Give the man credit for trying to do something about a situation other western politicians have let fester and ignored. Iran and Korea built nuclear facilities while people like you fornicated over the last presidents wife while she made pop videos.
  That white knight achieved absolutely nothing of substance, just played to the crowd, who gobled everything he said up.
  The difference is this guy for all his faults, is a get things done merchant.
   

[Filo]

  Where will that be taken Filo, in Trump's new golf hotel gardens in North Korea.
   Give the man credit for trying to do something about a situation other western politicians have let fester and ignored. Iran and Korea built nuclear facilities while people like you fornicated over the last presidents wife while she made pop videos.
  That white knight achieved absolutely nothing of substance, just played to the crowd, who gobled everything he said up.
  The difference is this guy for all his faults, is a get things done merchant.
   

Kim is playing him like a fiddle

[Hounslowrover]

  Where will that be taken Filo, in Trump's new golf hotel gardens in North Korea.
   Give the man credit for trying to do something about a situation other western politicians have let fester and ignored. Iran and Korea built nuclear facilities while people like you fornicated over the last presidents wife while she made pop videos.
  That white knight achieved absolutely nothing of substance, just played to the crowd, who gobled everything he said up.
  The difference is this guy for all his faults, is a get things done merchant.
   

Trump has just torn up the Iran deal which he regularly denounced - it consisted of 110 pages and had detailed arrangements to verify Iran's agreement and is supported by other G7 members.
As Filo said, he's being played.

[MachoMadness]

achieved absolutely nothing of substance, just played to the crowd, who gobled everything he said up.

Sums Trump up to a T, actually.

[selby]

  I think you are all seeing what you want to see, and not what is happening.

[RedJ]

  I think you are seeing what you want to see, and not what is happening.

Yes you are

[BillyStubbsTears]

Footage of the cages in which the Trump administration is keeping kids who have been taken from their parents at the border.

https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidBegnaud/status/1008704668816560128/video/1

God al-f**king-mighty.