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Quote from: The Red Baron on May 03, 2019, 01:02:30 pmQuote from: RedJ on May 03, 2019, 12:53:19 pmThere was a fair sized campaign online to get people to vote Lib Dem and Green to show their feeling on Brexit as Labour are increasingly seen (unsurprisingly) as a Brexit party too.That was one of my points. If you are pro-Remain, and especially if you want a Second Referendum, there's no reason for you to vote Labour, either in these elections or the EU ones.Yep. I agree very much with that.What I don't agree with is the insistence that Labour has been hammered because it's not supporting Leave.
Quote from: RedJ on May 03, 2019, 12:53:19 pmThere was a fair sized campaign online to get people to vote Lib Dem and Green to show their feeling on Brexit as Labour are increasingly seen (unsurprisingly) as a Brexit party too.That was one of my points. If you are pro-Remain, and especially if you want a Second Referendum, there's no reason for you to vote Labour, either in these elections or the EU ones.
There was a fair sized campaign online to get people to vote Lib Dem and Green to show their feeling on Brexit as Labour are increasingly seen (unsurprisingly) as a Brexit party too.
Now both big parties are stringing the line that people not voting for them is their way of telling them to 'get on with it'Since when has being told to feck off equated to being told to 'get on with it'?
Quote from: Glyn_Wigley on May 03, 2019, 07:57:20 pmNow both big parties are stringing the line that people not voting for them is their way of telling them to 'get on with it'Since when has being told to feck off equated to being told to 'get on with it'? It's the Zeitgeist. Policy-based evidence making, instead of evidence-based policy making.It's been creeping in for years but it rules the roost on all sides these days.You decide what you belief and you hammer the evidence until it fits into that mould. Corbyn wants Brexit. Always has and he always will. Therefore the facts SHALL show that Labour voters want Brexit.Crofty here, although he's not making any conclusions, is in danger of running down the same ideologically convinced rabbit hole by presenting data with a very particular slant.Crofty. 1) That evidence says nothing about what LABOUR voters voted in 2016. It says only what the Leave vote was in the areas in total. 2) Who have Labour lost seats to today? There's been a UKIP candidate in pretty much every one that Labour lost. How many did they pick up? And how many were lost to the LDs and Greens?Excellent research Crofty by the way. You've got more patience than me to put that together. But it would be more informative to also look at areas where Labour gained seats this time (e.g. Calderdale, +4, 55.7% Leave: Plymouth, +1, 59.9% Leave: Peterborough, +3, 60.9% Leave...I haven't got your patience but there are a good few more).And, critically, you need to look at who the lost Labour votes have gone to. Sunderland seems to be the poster town for Left Leave these days. Yesterday, Labour's vote was down 17%. But UKIP was only up 4.5%. whereas the Lads were up 10% and the Greens up 8.5%.Unless you subscribe to SS's view that Leave voters are to thick or idle to know how to register a protest vote (and therefore voted LD when they could have voted UKIP) that looks to me like Labour losing more Remain supporters than Leave supporters.
“b*llocks to Brexit.”Go the Lib Dems, if JC can't get his head around remain there is a party that can.Vince Cable has staked the Liberal Democrats’ claim to be the leading remain party in the European elections, as he unveiled a forthright new slogan for the campaign: “b*llocks to Brexit.”The phrase, previously plastered on stickers and T-shirts by ardent remain supporters, is now emblazoned across the Lib Dem manifesto for the 23 May poll – though more squeamish candidates will have the option of one that just says “Stop Brexit”.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/09/vince-cable-stakes-lib-dems-claim-as-torch-carriers-for-remain
I never really saw Vince Cable as a Johnny Rotten figure.
Surely it's the Tories wanting to Sell England by the pound.
Quote from: The Red Baron on May 09, 2019, 03:36:49 pmI never really saw Vince Cable as a Johnny Rotten figure.Never mind. 😉
Quote from: SydneyRover on May 09, 2019, 07:39:00 am“b*llocks to Brexit.”Go the Lib Dems, if JC can't get his head around remain there is a party that can.Vince Cable has staked the Liberal Democrats’ claim to be the leading remain party in the European elections, as he unveiled a forthright new slogan for the campaign: “b*llocks to Brexit.”The phrase, previously plastered on stickers and T-shirts by ardent remain supporters, is now emblazoned across the Lib Dem manifesto for the 23 May poll – though more squeamish candidates will have the option of one that just says “Stop Brexit”.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/09/vince-cable-stakes-lib-dems-claim-as-torch-carriers-for-remainThanks for that Sydney; that slogan just sums you lot up perfectly.Roll on May 23rd.
Straight to Hell?Ever Fallen in Love with a Brexit You Shouldn't Have Fallen In Love With?It's (not) Gonna Happen?By the way, I strongly recommend this.https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0004vyd/storyville-brexit-behind-closed-doors-part-1Eye-opening, informative and (as someone who is proud to be British) shaming.