Coronavirus

[tyke1962]

Vaccinating kids against Covid is child abuse IMO. But i guess oldies who care more about their own health than the health of little kiddies with their whole lives in front of them don't care about that. Although they'll say they do because again, they have this lefty ideology that allows their own selfishness to be  hidden behind a slew of fakery claiming to care about others.

It's a pity they haven't invented a vaccine for stupidity but then again your so stupid you wouldn't take that either .

[scawsby steve]

Vaccinating kids against Covid is child abuse IMO. But i guess oldies who care more about their own health than the health of little kiddies with their whole lives in front of them don't care about that. Although they'll say they do because again, they have this lefty ideology that allows their own selfishness to be  hidden behind a slew of fakery claiming to care about others.

It's a pity they haven't invented a vaccine for stupidity but then again your so stupid you wouldn't take that either .

Waste of time, Tyke; he's not here anymore.

[drfchound]

Vaccinating kids against Covid is child abuse IMO. But i guess oldies who care more about their own health than the health of little kiddies with their whole lives in front of them don't care about that. Although they'll say they do because again, they have this lefty ideology that allows their own selfishness to be  hidden behind a slew of fakery claiming to care about others.

It's a pity they haven't invented a vaccine for stupidity but then again your so stupid you wouldn't take that either .

Waste of time, Tyke; he's not here anymore.

He might be back though, as another endangered species.

[mugnapper]

Vaccinating kids against Covid is child abuse IMO. But i guess oldies who care more about their own health than the health of little kiddies with their whole lives in front of them don't care about that. Although they'll say they do because again, they have this lefty ideology that allows their own selfishness to be  hidden behind a slew of fakery claiming to care about others.

It's a pity they haven't invented a vaccine for stupidity but then again your so stupid you wouldn't take that either .

Waste of time, Tyke; he's not here anymore.

He may not be posting currently, but he’s still looking every day, I suppose to see if we’re missing him.
In fact he’s just logged in at 8.40am.

You can guarantee he’ll be back to educate and entertain us.

[scawsby steve]

Vaccinating kids against Covid is child abuse IMO. But i guess oldies who care more about their own health than the health of little kiddies with their whole lives in front of them don't care about that. Although they'll say they do because again, they have this lefty ideology that allows their own selfishness to be  hidden behind a slew of fakery claiming to care about others.

It's a pity they haven't invented a vaccine for stupidity but then again your so stupid you wouldn't take that either .

Waste of time, Tyke; he's not here anymore.

He may not be posting currently, but he’s still looking every day, I suppose to see if we’re missing him.
In fact he’s just logged in at 8.40am.

You can guarantee he’ll be back to educate and entertain us.

That's got me baffled. I thought that when posters are banned, they could only view the forum as a guest.

[mugnapper]

Vaccinating kids against Covid is child abuse IMO. But i guess oldies who care more about their own health than the health of little kiddies with their whole lives in front of them don't care about that. Although they'll say they do because again, they have this lefty ideology that allows their own selfishness to be  hidden behind a slew of fakery claiming to care about others.

It's a pity they haven't invented a vaccine for stupidity but then again your so stupid you wouldn't take that either .

Waste of time, Tyke; he's not here anymore.

He may not be posting currently, but he’s still looking every day, I suppose to see if we’re missing him.
In fact he’s just logged in at 8.40am.

You can guarantee he’ll be back to educate and entertain us.

That's got me baffled. I thought that when posters are banned, they could only view the forum as a guest.

If you click on someone’s name on a post it gives you the date they joined and date when last active.
Also how many posts in total and their daily average.

[ncRover]

https://twitter.com/rob_roos/status/1579759795225198593?s=46&t=lC4td9Fl7wIWILEhPRhnag

[Bristol Red Rover]

https://twitter.com/rob_roos/status/1579759795225198593?s=46&t=lC4td9Fl7wIWILEhPRhnag

Seems that's all true, yet most people, and most media, just take a "medical" official's word as gospel. The power they have is insane. So much "medicine" is policy driven, partly from the established medical model and those that are in that, and partly from huge amounts of money making. It's little different than religion.

[i_ateallthepies]

Just another vax denier throwing a strop.

To say most people got vaccinated to prevent transmission to others is stretching a point.  I suspect the primary reason that most people chose to get vaccinated was to protect themselves.
Then, if the vaccination prevents people becoming infected then that logically protects others because each vaccinated person is one person fewer passing it on - the 'herd immunity' principle.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Just another vax denier throwing a strop.

To say most people got vaccinated to prevent transmission to others is stretching a point.  I suspect the primary reason that most people chose to get vaccinated was to protect themselves.
Then, if the vaccination prevents people becoming infected then that logically protects others because each vaccinated person is one person fewer passing it on - the 'herd immunity' principle.

A vaccine cannot stop you getting infected, it's not how they work. They modify an immune response in some way.

I agree most chose vaccines because they wanted this adapted immune response, not that most have a clue what that is. However, it is fact that we were also told that the vaccine reduces transmission in those infected, ie being specific, if you are vaccinated and have covid, asymptomatic or not, you are less likely to pass it on. On top of this there were restrictions including those placed on travel for people not vaccinated. I know many who were vaccinated for this specific reason despite not wanting the vaccine otherwise. This was a deliberate manipulation.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Not to mention the fact that without a majority of people being vaccinated, the result of another wave of infections would have been the hospital's being overwhelmed.

Here's the problem. Most people simply don't understand numbers and as a result, they don't understand how changes to numbers for better or worse can make massively disproportionate effects on the final outcomes.

Here's why it applies SO strongly to COVID and vaccinations.

1) When COVID outbreaks occurred, maybe 3-5% of the people who caught it would end up needing hospital treatment.

2) The issue with so many sceptics is that they read that as meaning that 95-97% would have a mild case and wouldn't need medical attention.

3) They then conclude that it's overwhelmingly unlikely that they personally would need hospital treatment if they caught COVID, and so it is reasonable for them, personally, to not need to get vaccinated.

4) To some extent, there's a logic to that. But here's the problem. If everyone takes that line, 3-5% of the infected people in the next wave WILL need hospital treatment. Might not be person A or B. But it will be one of persons A-Z.

5) And this is where the lack of understanding of numbers comes in. 3-5% doesn't sound like much. So where's the problem? The problem is that the entire NHS can only cope with about 0.2% of the population needing hospital treatment at the same time. So if only 10% of the population catch COVID, and if only 3% of them need hospital treatment, that's your NHS f**ked. No heart attacks get treated. No strokes. No car crashes. No accidents at work.

6) And there's the  end of the story. By refusing to get vaccinated, you're probably still fine, yourself. But if a lot of people copy you, a f**king hell of a lot of other people suffer and die.

In my angrier moments, I've thought that meant that the vaccine refusers were selfish, sociopathic t**ts who didn't care about any of the above arguments. But I don't really think they are. I think they simply don't understand the logic of the numbers. And they have been fired up and misled deliberately by a handful of TRULY evil Kitsons online.
 

[Bristol Red Rover]

1) Where are the 3-5% stats from? Are they based on current infections?

What are the figures for hospital admissions for adverse vaccine effects both immediately and long term? Why haven't you included that?

[BillyStubbsTears]

1) Where are the 3-5% stats from? Are they based on current infections?

What are the figures for hospital admissions for adverse vaccine effects both immediately and long term? Why haven't you included that?

The 3-5% figure comes from NHS data for the Winter 20/21 wave. At the peak, there were about 50,000 new recorded cases per day. But data from the ZOE study and from the ONS suggests only around half of all infections led to someone recording a positive test at that time, so maybe 100,000 new cases per day. A week or so later, new COVID+ admissions to hospital peaked at just under 4000 per day. 

As for the number of people whose lives have been ended or damaged by vaccinations, here's a thought. Instead of blowing smoke around to obscure every fact, why don't you go and do some basic research for yourself.

[Bristol Red Rover]

1) Where are the 3-5% stats from? Are they based on current infections?

What are the figures for hospital admissions for adverse vaccine effects both immediately and long term? Why haven't you included that?

The 3-5% figure comes from NHS data for the Winter 20/21 wave. At the peak, there were about 50,000 new recorded cases per day. But data from the ZOE study and from the ONS suggests only around half of all infections led to someone recording a positive test at that time, so maybe 100,000 new cases per day. A week or so later, new COVID+ admissions to hospital peaked at just under 4000 per day. 

As for the number of people whose lives have been ended or damaged by vaccinations, here's a thought. Instead of blowing smoke around to obscure every fact, why don't you go and do some basic research for yourself.

So you're going on data where a large number of people were experiencing thier first infection, which is always likely, in the world of virology, to be more extreme. This is seen for instance in flu. I find it strange that for someone banging on about their skills with stats that this crucial factor is ignored.

There is also the issue of people with covid and people suffering from covid.

Further, from your reply, you are totally unaware of the number of hospital admissions short and long term due to vaccine reactions and effects.

It is also the case that youger people experience a less intense immune reacton, so by limiting their exposure when young, the likelihood of greater harm overall is increased. However I do value the point about NHS services being overwhelmed, and whilst all the above must be included in any stats, this is very important.

We've had two years to deal with the hospital capacity situation and as far as I can see nothing much if anything at all has been done. It should also be noted this extends ore covid where capacity wasn't able to accomodate an upper average outbreak.

[BillyStubbsTears]

And there we go again. Classic BRR. Not a single number. Just blowing smoke over the entire debate.
You keep banging on about people harmed by the virus. Back it up with some numbers.

[ncRover]

1) Where are the 3-5% stats from? Are they based on current infections?

What are the figures for hospital admissions for adverse vaccine effects both immediately and long term? Why haven't you included that?

The 3-5% figure comes from NHS data for the Winter 20/21 wave. At the peak, there were about 50,000 new recorded cases per day. But data from the ZOE study and from the ONS suggests only around half of all infections led to someone recording a positive test at that time, so maybe 100,000 new cases per day. A week or so later, new COVID+ admissions to hospital peaked at just under 4000 per day. 

As for the number of people whose lives have been ended or damaged by vaccinations, here's a thought. Instead of blowing smoke around to obscure every fact, why don't you go and do some basic research for yourself.

So, 1.5 to 2.5% based on Zoe.

I am 27, fit and healthy. I took the vaccine because I wanted to protect those around me. I thought it had been tested for transmission. You’ve seen the statistics for risk v age.

This is a major breach of scientific ethics, it doesn’t matter what your personal opinions are on whether people are right or wrong to have it. Informed consent is sacred in terms of someone having a medical intervention.

The fact that policies such as vaccine passports were pushed based on the idea of reducing transmission is even more ridiculous now.

[Bristol Red Rover]

And there we go again. Classic BRR. Not a single number. Just blowing smoke over the entire debate.
You keep banging on about people harmed by the virus. Back it up with some numbers.

Are you denying these aspects or not? Are you really that ignorant?

The first base of stats, unkown to you obviously, is to identify all the factors within an analysis as far as is possible. I suggested some of the most important omissions of factors in your "analysis" and you choose to ignore them. I think that shows your calibre.

[no eyed deer]

No way should this post just drift into obscurity.

I think if Elon Musk was in charge of twitter back then we might not be in this mess.

[SydneyRover]

On the ball as usual Ned

[ncRover]

https://twitter.com/yougov/status/1587396165863079938?s=46&t=vWW_HU2tYUgAnaBNNdEcgg

[Bristol Red Rover]

https://twitter.com/yougov/status/1587396165863079938?s=46&t=vWW_HU2tYUgAnaBNNdEcgg

Mental. Though interesting to see the vaccine take up getting to the level of pointlessness in terms of basic herd immunity, not that it prevents spread anyway.

[no eyed deer]

On the ball as usual Ned

Second only to you Syd....... second only to you.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Most people have common sense to act appropriately.  I've just had covid for the third time, another annoyance but I stayed away from others and didn't pass it on.  We don't need restrictions just common sense.

[Nudga]

https://twitter.com/yougov/status/1587396165863079938?s=46&t=vWW_HU2tYUgAnaBNNdEcgg

Mental. Though interesting to see the vaccine take up getting to the level of pointlessness in terms of basic herd immunity, not that it prevents spread anyway.

Zahawi's yougov polls are not reliable.

Look at the poll directly below that one on the same thread

[no eyed deer]

So the price of lockdown is now coming to the surface.

A few were trying to put our concerns forward only to be called out and ridiculed.

[SydneyRover]

There are 10s of thousands not here to voice there concerns

[ncRover]

There are 10s of thousands not here to voice there concerns

Look at the current non-covid excess death trends. There are no solutions, only trade-offs.

[SydneyRover]

why don't you show us the data and explain what it all means

[SydneyRover]

go back to sleep ned

[Nudga]

And over 1k excess deaths a week not COVID related but silence on here.