Coronavirus

[DonnyOsmond]

Lol

https://mobile.twitter.com/DailyMail/status/1238542657825263616

Canada have said the same. America haven't been testing that many people so they have no idea the true figure there.

[IDM]

Yesterday the medical adviser defended our governments approach saying there is more likelihood to get the virus from family contact or close contact, as opposed to open areas.

So they think events like football are ok as the stadia are open air?  But what about in the crowded concourses and on public transport after the game.?  I found no mention of that, and that is a lack of logic which I cannot understand.

[wilts rover]

Before reading the following tweet it is useful to remind yourself that the over 65's are the most vunerable group to covid-19 and the most likely to suffer serious complications/die, the government have not yet put in place any physical measures to stop the spread of covid-19, and people are panic buying toilet roll:

https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1238611490921484295

[IDM]

There was a government spokesperson on the bbc this morning going on about making money available to help deal with the virus.  The context was the potential for a lack of care workers for elderly and infirm people, especially if some
Of those care workers get the virus too.

How the hell would throwing emergency cash at this generate more trained and approved care workers in a short timescale.?

[idler]

Before reading the following tweet it is useful to remind yourself that the over 65's are the most vunerable group to covid-19 and the most likely to suffer serious complications/die, the government have not yet put in place any physical measures to stop the spread of covid-19, and people are panic buying toilet roll:

https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1238611490921484295

Both me and my wife are over 65 Wilts and have little confidence in this government. I also think that the older generation were brought up to go to work and carry on as normal as possible whatever happened, so maybe don't panic as much as younger folk. This may change as more succumb and fatalities rise.

[ravenrover]

Lol

https://mobile.twitter.com/DailyMail/status/1238542657825263616

Canada have said the same. America haven't been testing that many people so they have no idea the true figure there.

Neither does the UK

[BillyStubbsTears]

I have a difficulty with the assertion that policy is being "guided by the science" when that same policy is not open about the data which is informing decision makers.

The best way is to encourage discussion and potential disagreement by full disclosure. The scientific community can then make an informed view on the basis of common data assumptions.

Peer review is key to decision making in science. It is not a question of trust the CMO, or the CSO, it is a matter of critical assessment of the available evidence, as it changes across time and location.

Here is a pointer from Anthony Costello, ex WHO, about problem areas;
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1238425621375651840.html

No more briefings from Johnson, please......experts only, open about their disagreements.
BJ and Cummings have no democratic mandate for there current strategy devised inside a closed system.

Albie.

I entirely agree.

On that topic, something has just struck me. I've not seen anyone raise the issue of having a Coalition Govt for the next 6-9 months, as we did in the War. The threat, in terms of the number of deaths and the potential economic dislocation is at least as big. What we need as you say, is critical oversight and consensus on policy. And again, suspending traditional party politics would be THE clearest way of emphasising how serious this is.

[River Don]

Before reading the following tweet it is useful to remind yourself that the over 65's are the most vunerable group to covid-19 and the most likely to suffer serious complications/die, the government have not yet put in place any physical measures to stop the spread of covid-19, and people are panic buying toilet roll:

https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1238611490921484295

Both me and my wife are over 65 Wilts and have little confidence in this government. I also think that the older generation were brought up to go to work and carry on as normal as possible whatever happened, so maybe don't panic as much as younger folk. This may change as more succumb and fatalities rise.

This virus forces us to rely more on youth. It is the over 60s who need to isolate themselves, particularly at this stage.

If the virus grows amongst the young, then that is not such such an issue. Then the vexed question of herd immunity raises its head again. If we have a large population of immune younger people who are no longer contagious then it becomes much safer for the older community.

I heard a doctor on the radio yesterday who said if he could he would isolate all the vulnerable in Scotland and shift the rest of the population to Kent to contract the virus.

[SydneyRover]

Lol

https://mobile.twitter.com/DailyMail/status/1238542657825263616

I'm assuming trump doesn't do irony Wilts?

[River Don]

My take on the question of herd immunity.

The WHO and most countries are still advocating a scramble to try and contain the virus. They want to build a wall against the virus but I think we can see in the numbers that this is not really working. The hope is if they stay locked down hard and long enough some form of treatment might come along to save the day... But we know a vaccine is at least twelve months away and probably eighteen months away. Can the economy really sustain a hard lockdown for a whole year???

If it can't then the lockdown will begin to break and when it does there is every possibility that the virus will start again in a deadly second wave.

The WHO still hopes the virus can be contained and stopped.
The WHO thinks we can lockdown for an indefinite amount of time.
The WHO is hoping for a quick vaccine or treatment.

To me all these seem like vain hopes.

The UK government wants to delay the lock down right until the virus begins to really ramp up. That way there will be some early exposure of the population, whilst taking measures to isolate the vulnerable. The NHS can begin to deal with an increase in cases. When the lock down comes in an effort to suppress the peak and delay the virus, immunity in the population will be growing. The hope is when a shorter lockdown is lifted there won't be the second wave and the desperate need for a vaccine will be lessened. The hope is the economy will also cope better, this isn't putting money before lives. We all need a functioning economy to survive this.

It is a gamble but then the WHO are taking a gamble too and to me I think their approach is the more panic driven. The big objection the WHO seem to raise is that the UK approach is untested.

[BillyStubbsTears]

What a f***ing weasel, it's hard to believe this man belongs to the same species as the rest of us?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2020/mar/13/coronavirus-trump-slams-reporter-for-nasty-question-over-pandemic-response-team-video

https://mobile.twitter.com/mviser/status/1238558531562897414

Trump literally makes my skin crawl. He is the archetypal pathetic bully. He swing punches at people weaker than him, but when someone corners him, his response, ALWAYS is to cower and say "Wasn't me".

What a decline from the sort of thing a true leader says, like "The buck stops here" to "It wasn't me, Tony did it."

Utterly, absolutely pathetic.

[SydneyRover]

I think policy U-turns are something we are going to have to get used to with a government hiring weirdo's and misfits.


''The WHO director general, Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, said all possible action should be taken: “Not testing alone. Not contact tracing alone. Not quarantine alone. Not social distancing alone. Do it all.”

Hours later, in a significant change of tack, Downing Street signalled it was preparing to stop large public events, including sports fixtures and concerts, to alleviate the pressure on police and the ambulance service. It did not specify what size of event would be affected, and the timing of the clampdown has yet to be decided, but it is expected to come into force in a week’s time''

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/13/uk-to-ban-mass-gatherings-in-coronavirus-u-turn

[River Don]

I actually think closing mass gatherings is sensible. Take the football, a lot of older people go to watch the football, it's an open invitation to the virus.

The same is true with church services, and I think they should be cancelled now.

Schools and universities though I think should remain open for the time being.

[SydneyRover]

totally agree RD, the decision not to act sooner was wrong, obviously wrong.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sheffield University has a C-19 case and is stopping all face to face teaching.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.co.uk/health/university-sheffield-confirms-staff-member-has-coronavirus-it-suspends-face-face-teaching-2450517%3famp

Sensible precaution.

[River Don]

Sheffield University has a C-19 case and is stopping all face to face teaching.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.co.uk/health/university-sheffield-confirms-staff-member-has-coronavirus-it-suspends-face-face-teaching-2450517%3famp

Sensible precaution.

Maybe. These are young people though.

Perhaps if they check who has been exposed and deep clean the buildings it ought to be enough to reopen quickly?

[BillyStubbsTears]

I wonder what effect the possibility of being held corporately responsible for deaths will have on a decision like that.

Football matches are one thing. Spectators choose to go to them.

University classes are a requirement of being a student. The University requires students to attend large gatherings. I'd have thought it inevitable that there would be some students' families who would litigate if their child fell ill.

And then there's the practical issue. Some students would have chosen not to attend large classes. Is it fair for them to be penalised?

This is a little microcosm of the way in which C-19 will produce societal problems beyond the immediate health crisis.

[Bristol Red Rover]

....On that topic, something has just struck me. I've not seen anyone raise the issue of having a Coalition Govt for the next 6-9 months, as we did in the War. The threat, in terms of the number of deaths and the potential economic dislocation is at least as big. What we need as you say, is critical oversight and consensus on policy. And again, suspending traditional party politics would be THE clearest way of emphasising how serious this is.

That's not going to happen, esp with the Tories. Even if they could work cross party, it would mean giving credibiity to some Labour MPs, probably including Corbyn and the leadership candidates.

I do wonder how much Cummings is trying to keep out of all this. For him and his needs, and all the elite wealthy, this is gold in the bank whatever happens.

[River Don]

It is a can of worms for sure BST.

We have a teenager who has come home from school with news that a member of staff has reported having the symptoms. We don't know who it is but we do know it's not a teacher. We know this staff member hasn't been tested yet.

For now, we have been told school won't reopen until Wednesday when it's had a deep clean.

We are waiting for news but I can see the school being forced to close for some time because of the issues you mention.

Obviously our girl is devastated at the prospect of being forced to stay at home.

[Copps is Magic]

Sheffield University has a C-19 case and is stopping all face to face teaching.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.co.uk/health/university-sheffield-confirms-staff-member-has-coronavirus-it-suspends-face-face-teaching-2450517%3famp

Sensible precaution.

Maybe. These are young people though.

Perhaps if they check who has been exposed and deep clean the buildings it ought to be enough to reopen quickly?

It's not that easy. Not all students are young. I have many over 50 that I teach/supervise - there is usually a small percentage in every class. And then there is the staff - the image of crusty old professors in a small room with books still holds true in many institutions. Universities are perfect breeding ground for the spread of the virus, having copious numbers of meetings is a requirement of the job (across academic departments, with societal stakeholders), my whole academic life is taken up with meetings, sometimes meetings about meetings. (as is international travel more common).

Then there's the students... halls of residence, travelling home in the holidays, generally a more carefree attitude to life .... you get the picture.

My university has advised staff to do all classes online for the remainder of the academic year. Its perfectly doable. I use a lot of interactive-digital material in my courses anyway so its already a commonly established practice.

[The Red Baron]

I have a difficulty with the assertion that policy is being "guided by the science" when that same policy is not open about the data which is informing decision makers.

The best way is to encourage discussion and potential disagreement by full disclosure. The scientific community can then make an informed view on the basis of common data assumptions.

Peer review is key to decision making in science. It is not a question of trust the CMO, or the CSO, it is a matter of critical assessment of the available evidence, as it changes across time and location.

Here is a pointer from Anthony Costello, ex WHO, about problem areas;
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1238425621375651840.html

No more briefings from Johnson, please......experts only, open about their disagreements.
BJ and Cummings have no democratic mandate for there current strategy devised inside a closed system.

Albie.

I entirely agree.

On that topic, something has just struck me. I've not seen anyone raise the issue of having a Coalition Govt for the next 6-9 months, as we did in the War. The threat, in terms of the number of deaths and the potential economic dislocation is at least as big. What we need as you say, is critical oversight and consensus on policy. And again, suspending traditional party politics would be THE clearest way of emphasising how serious this is.

As Jeremy Corbyn will no longer be Leader of the Opposition in a few weeks time, I think it becomes a greater possibility.

[tyke1962]

I have a difficulty with the assertion that policy is being "guided by the science" when that same policy is not open about the data which is informing decision makers.

The best way is to encourage discussion and potential disagreement by full disclosure. The scientific community can then make an informed view on the basis of common data assumptions.

Peer review is key to decision making in science. It is not a question of trust the CMO, or the CSO, it is a matter of critical assessment of the available evidence, as it changes across time and location.

Here is a pointer from Anthony Costello, ex WHO, about problem areas;
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1238425621375651840.html

No more briefings from Johnson, please......experts only, open about their disagreements.
BJ and Cummings have no democratic mandate for there current strategy devised inside a closed system.

Albie.

I entirely agree.

On that topic, something has just struck me. I've not seen anyone raise the issue of having a Coalition Govt for the next 6-9 months, as we did in the War. The threat, in terms of the number of deaths and the potential economic dislocation is at least as big. What we need as you say, is critical oversight and consensus on policy. And again, suspending traditional party politics would be THE clearest way of emphasising how serious this is.

The country voted emphatically not to have Labour representation inside Downing Street .

If we had a government without a majority then you'd probably make a decent point given the circumstances facing the UK at this moment .

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Sheffield University has a C-19 case and is stopping all face to face teaching.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.co.uk/health/university-sheffield-confirms-staff-member-has-coronavirus-it-suspends-face-face-teaching-2450517%3famp

Sensible precaution.

If only they'd done that when I was a student there and caught swine flu pretty badly.

Sensibke thing to do, these things spread through unis really quickly.

[tyke1962]

A remarkable story , a million miles away from the selfish panic buyer's of today .



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35064071

[BillyStubbsTears]

I have a difficulty with the assertion that policy is being "guided by the science" when that same policy is not open about the data which is informing decision makers.

The best way is to encourage discussion and potential disagreement by full disclosure. The scientific community can then make an informed view on the basis of common data assumptions.

Peer review is key to decision making in science. It is not a question of trust the CMO, or the CSO, it is a matter of critical assessment of the available evidence, as it changes across time and location.

Here is a pointer from Anthony Costello, ex WHO, about problem areas;
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1238425621375651840.html

No more briefings from Johnson, please......experts only, open about their disagreements.
BJ and Cummings have no democratic mandate for there current strategy devised inside a closed system.

Albie.

I entirely agree.

On that topic, something has just struck me. I've not seen anyone raise the issue of having a Coalition Govt for the next 6-9 months, as we did in the War. The threat, in terms of the number of deaths and the potential economic dislocation is at least as big. What we need as you say, is critical oversight and consensus on policy. And again, suspending traditional party politics would be THE clearest way of emphasising how serious this is.

The country voted emphatically not to have Labour representation inside Downing Street .

If we had a government without a majority then you'd probably make a decent point given the circumstances facing the UK at this moment .

We had a democratically elected Govt with a huge majority in May 1940. I don't understand your point.

[IDM]

I actually think closing mass gatherings is sensible. Take the football, a lot of older people go to watch the football, it's an open invitation to the virus.

The same is true with church services, and I think they should be cancelled now.

Schools and universities though I think should remain open for the time being.

Problem with football isn’t so much sitting in the open air stadia, more the crowds on the concourse and on public transport before and after.

That pisses me off that the government advisors have said nowt about that..

[Filo]

I’ve heard this morning there is a confirmed case in Dunscroft

[ravenrover]

Just lighten the mood

[Sprotyrover]

My observation, it's mainly the religious countries that are worst affected, elderly folks regularly go to church and in Italy/Spain/ Eire most days
The Muslim countries will suffer if I am unfortunately correct.yesterday Friday my mate was doing joinery work in Burngreave Mosque. it was Packed all day.

[Bristol Red Rover]

"Worst affected" -  we have a very varied take on how many cases there are in various countries, too many variables in the under reporting to get a real perspective. The key is anyway in the critical cases and deaths. The worst affected are ones with poorer health care services and less ability to avoid a spike in cases. But the picture is only barely emerging, and even then is dependent on political forces not giving out true figures even if they do have them.