An alternative view - corona virus

[Nudga]

Evening all. So we have the main thread about the corona virus, I've got absolutely no problem with that whatsoever.
I am an advocate of freedom of speech, your right to express your views and opinions.

I wanted to open up another thread to share an alternative view with reports and video clips from independent doctors and journalists etc.

A lot of people will call me a conspiracy theorist and a tin foil loco madman.
That's too easy, and lazy.

I question everything, I don't believe everything I see or read from MSM outlets, I don't believe what I hear from this government.

One big reason why I think something isn't right is the fact that a lot of the alternative information is being binned from the Internet.
Facebook, twitter, YouTube are taking down various clips and sensoring stories and people from the platform.
I just see a modern day propaganda machine in full flow.

I've already shared a few bits and pieces on the main topic which is being ignored.
That's fine, no problem but there might be others who would like to see a different side?

I don't believe every alternative news or piece I see either. Other sides have agendas too.

What I do see is too many coincidences and I believe we're heading for a very different future.

Some might see me as being dangerous and putting other people's lives at risk but I am following the social distancing guidelines etc out of courtesy for other people.

I'm not that bothered if I'm going to look stupid, after all, I only know a few of you on here and like I said, I don't believe all of the things I see but I've noticed a few regular posters aren't contributing anything.
Is this because they are afraid of offering their different opinions and made to look stupid by others?

There's probably going to be a lot of tumbleweed rolling through this thread but Ne mind, I'm a big boy.

[wilts rover]

If it involves bleach or 5G phone masts I wouldn't bother. If it something interesting that has not been mentioned previously I am sure we would all be up for that.

[Nudga]

Nope, neither of those. I try to sift through the proper shite.

[Copps is Magic]

One big reason why I think something isn't right is the fact that a lot of the alternative information is being binned from the Internet.
Facebook, twitter, YouTube are taking down various clips and sensoring stories and people from the platform.
I just see a modern day propaganda machine in full flow.

There are industrial level operations in Russia and China pumping out disinformation on the internet. Shit, western governments are even dabling in it from time to time. That's your conspiracy right there. Not the drop in the ocean attempts to remove it.

I posted this link a few days back. 42% of all info concerning covid-19 is posted by bots/automated. 30% is untrustworthy. Just think about that, there's literally billions of pieces of information floating out there that are bullshit verging on dangeours.

[BillyStubbsTears]

CiM

There's the problem.

The FSB has it as an aim to undermine the stability of Western democracies by destroying our ability to tell truth from lies. There was an ex-FSB officer interviewed by the BBC not long ago. He said their intention was to destroy our ability to have rational democracy. And that there wasn't a damn thing we could do to protect ourselves from it.


 They will be in overdrive pumping out credible bullshit on this topic.

[BigH]

Nudga,

Thanks for starting this thread. An interesting alternative to following the daily figures (which are appalling and make me want to weep).

So, in the spirit of what you started, I want to offer some random thoughts. I expect them to be shot down but, hey, if it stimulates open debate I'd be happy.

Is covid the tuberculosis of our times? Not literally, I know, as, medically, it's different - one bacterial, one viral - but, in terms of impact.

In 2018, 1.5 million people died of TB; one quarter of the world was thought to be infected with it. So it's still a bigger (much bigger) killer than Covid. Even though it's treatable apparently. Every year, nearly half a million new cases of multidrug-resistant tuberculosis occur across the globe.

TB seems like a relic of a bygone era - a little over 100 years ago there were over 100,000 deaths annually in the UK - last year 5000 people got TB here. 

TB mainly afflicts deprived communities. Will covid follow a similar trajectory? Already, there are signs it hits deprived communities disproportionately. Similar risk factors too e.g. a weakened immune system.

I live on the site of an old TB hospital that was built over a hundred years ago. It had open air wards. Does the future see specialist covid hospitals or covid wards as we try and compartmentalise it out of our day to day lives and hospitals?

For TB, a vaccine took 15 years to come through. Thousands died each year in the meantime.

Is this what the future holds? Improving medical knowledge, specialist treatment and a gradually diminishing impact on our every day lives as we learn to live with it?

[Nudga]

Possibly a good idea to start here. Pasteur vs Bechamp on germ theory.

http://maronewellness.com/pasteur-vs-bechamp-an-alternative-view-of-infectious-disease/

Obviously Pasteur won the day and Bechamp is resigned to the history books.
Vaccines, medicine, it all costs money and someone always benefits from making money.

Now, I'd never heard of Bechamp until around two years ago.
My old school friend was very, very poorly. Doctors couldn't find what was up with her, but still pumped her full of drugs anyway, she lost a dangerous amount of weight and she was very scared of the possibility of death at a young age leaving kids behind.

She looked into alternative medicine /healing and found a lady who said she  could help.

She worked on the good bacteria that lives in the gut and changed my friends diet that de-toxifies the gut and also helps the good bacteria.
She also suggested more sunlight and walks and yoga. Simple eh.
My friend had a very good career that took her around the world so she was couped up in offices, trains and aeroplanes.

I recently saw my old school friend and she looked amazing, really healthy, more meat on her bones and she said that she felt great and her problems were gradually dissipating.


Now, I don't know enough about medical science to go one way or the other with this. Maybe both ideas can work hand in hand, maybe they do already?

So this takes me down to the vaccination argument.

In October 2019, The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, John's Hopkins School and The World Economic Forum held the 201 event in New York.

https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/

A pandemic exercise which " would require reliable cooperation among several industries, national governments, and key international institutions."

A few weeks down the road and China gets the first outbreak of Covid 19.

And now we have Bill Gates at the forefront of testing/vaccinations

https://multipolar-magazin.de/artikel/the-gates-foundations-vaccination-activism

[BillyStubbsTears]

Nudga.

Come away from the specific and look at the big picture.

Following the Pasteur approach, we have eliminated Smallpox, and canned TB, Measles and a whole swathe of other deadly diseases.

Do you REALLY want to live in a world where we ignore that and out our trust in quack cures with zero scientific validity?

But if you want to do specific cases, I'll give you a very personal take.

When my father in law was diagnosed with lung cancer, he, in desperation, visited a German "alternative therapist" who had a glossy internet page full of examples of people he'd cured from cancer, through injecting them with huge doses of Vitamin C. My father in law paid him over €3000 for treatment. It did nothing to help him of course because it was a quack treatment by a fraudster, posing as a saviour to desperate people.

[Nudga]

BST, I'm sorry to hear that about your father in law. Yes there are unscrupulous people about making money out of other people's misfortune.

I have also lost family members to cancer, four in fact.
Three of those had radiotherapy, the initial cancer was nuked away so to speak. 6 months later they died with aggressive brain tumours.

We could talk about the benefits of CBD and turmeric curcumin.
One of my clients wife has got cancer, she's had it for about 5 years.
The chemotherapy slowed the cancer down but the cancer cells numbers were still high (apologies on this part, I'm not sure what they measure, red cells, white cells? I can't remember what he told me)
Out of desperation, he bought some CBD last year , a few drops under the tongue every day. These numbers they measure the cancer with have started to drop, I think they were around 60 and now they are around the 40 mark.
Her consultant doesn't know about the CBD and was apparently stackered by the drop in the numbers.


Oh and zero scientific validity, do you not think that doctors of medical science are not struck off if they don't follow company policy (think Big Pharma)
Tony Fauci had Dr Judy A Mikovits struck off and ruined her career.

https://twitter.com/DrJudyAMikovits/status/1253880609564512256?s=19

[Sprotyrover]

World Centres like London,Paris,Berlin,Tokyo New York in Lock down, yet Beijing and Shanghai untouched

[BillyStubbsTears]

And Seoul. And Taipei. And Hong Kong. They have all had low death totals.

Because they were prepared for this by the experience of SARS and they kicked into action far faster than we did.

In terms of reported deaths in the early stages, China was about 35 days ahead of Italy. But they locked down 46 days ahead of Italy. That 11 days is crucial. It gave them the ability to suppress the spread.

Germany similarly locked down ahead of us and Italy in their epidemic timescale. They have had a similarly successful outcome. Sobi don't know why you included Berlin in your list of badly hit cities. They have only had 123 deaths.

And I don't now what you mean about Beijing and Shanghai being "untouched". They both had extensive lock downs.

[Sprotyrover]

Berlin was on the news today Billy folks protesting about the lock down.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I don't have a clue what you are on about Sproty.

Yes. Berlin had a lockdown.

Like Shanghai did. And Beijing.

[wilts rover]

https://factcheck.afp.com/false-claim-beijing-and-shanghai-are-untouched-covid-19

[Nudga]

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/disease/contamination-corruption-of-government/

Dr Judy A Mikovits.

Turn off the TV and read more books.

[Colemans Left Hook]

I don't have a clue what you are on about Sproty.

Yes. Berlin had a lockdown.

Like Shanghai did. And Beijing.

 to quote the often used "put down" phrase of a fellow poster who won't remain nameless

.................  "and your point is"

Yes Sprot i saw  that  "demo".

 Strangely on france 24 a while ago it mentioned which countries were doing what  furloughwise  and when it came to Germany , it only mentioned what Berlin, not Germany !! were up to which seemed strange. CLH thought of a Merkel angle there at the time  . Meaning it "indicated" Berlin was ahead of the rest of Germany "furloughwise" by a furlong .   


 

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://factcheck.afp.com/false-claim-beijing-and-shanghai-are-untouched-covid-19

I'm beginning to think that we as a species will not survive the coming of social media. It's clear that there are too many people with access to it who have zero filter. They will simply accept and repeat whatever b*llocks presses their buttons, without thinking of checking its provenance.

[Nudga]

https://factcheck.afp.com/false-claim-beijing-and-shanghai-are-untouched-covid-19

I'm beginning to think that we as a species will not survive the coming of social media. It's clear that there are too many people with access to it who have zero filter. They will simply accept and repeat whatever b*llocks presses their buttons, without thinking of checking its provenance.

Exactly why I started this thread.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Nudga.

I agree with you about being sceptical. But that doesn't mean I believe nothing. I work in a scientific area and science proceeds by checking claims against facts. When the facts go against the claims, the claims are binned. When the facts support the claims, the claims are strengthened.

On the topic of vaccination, I'd offer this evidence.

Polio (Widespread vaccination started in the west in the late 1950s and in the developing world in the 1980s)


Smallpox (WHO ran an intensive vaccination campaign worldwide through the 60s and 70s)


Measles


You want my take. I think the powerful people who have pushed the anti-vaccination line are among some of the most evil people who have ever existed. Vaccination schemes have saved millions or lives and even more millions of horribly affected lives. I don't know what drives the people who first started pushing the nonsense that vaccination is a a conspiracy against freedom, but whoever it is, they are putting many people at risk.

[wilts rover]

https://factcheck.afp.com/false-claim-beijing-and-shanghai-are-untouched-covid-19

I'm beginning to think that we as a species will not survive the coming of social media. It's clear that there are too many people with access to it who have zero filter. They will simply accept and repeat whatever b*llocks presses their buttons, without thinking of checking its provenance.

Exactly why I started this thread.

Yes I am fully supportive of it. If there are various crank theories out there then they should be discussed and outed. Or if it is new information taken on board.

Sorry I can't add much to this topic as it isn't something I know in any great depth.

I do know that Bill Gates & his foundation have been interesed in improving health worldwide for many years, specifically improving the health of children.

This of course has made him public enemy No1 for the US anti-vaxxers who have started several conspiracies about him in that time. Maybe something for you to look into?

[Nudga]

https://factcheck.afp.com/false-claim-beijing-and-shanghai-are-untouched-covid-19

I'm beginning to think that we as a species will not survive the coming of social media. It's clear that there are too many people with access to it who have zero filter. They will simply accept and repeat whatever b*llocks presses their buttons, without thinking of checking its provenance.

Exactly why I started this thread.

Yes I am fully supportive of it. If there are various crank theories out there then they should be discussed and outed. Or if it is new information taken on board.

Sorry I can't add much to this topic as it isn't something I know in any great depth.

I do know that Bill Gates & his foundation have been interesed in improving health worldwide for many years, specifically improving the health of children.

This of course has made him public enemy No1 for the US anti-vaxxers who have started several conspiracies about him in that time. Maybe something for you to look into?

Yes I've seen the claims that his vaccinations have supposedly killed some Indian children and that his foundation has been kicked out of India.
I chose not to post that link on here as I said earlier, there are people with agendas, on all sides, as it is with most things in life. Even the science and scientific statistics can be manipulated.

My concern is the timing of event 201 and the timing of the outbreak.
And now he is at the forefront of the vaccination push.

In all honesty, I feel very uncomfortable with the whole social distancing thing.

Such as, piped information in supermarkets droning on and on about keeping your distance.
Stay home, stay safe. Stay home, stay safe, stay home, stay safe.
Face masks in the open air.
The happy clapping ritual on Thursdays.
Nurses doing tik tok dancing.
London Bridge full of nurses, police etc but people queueing at B&Q getting lambasted.
Police doing what police do, the heavy handed doormen type kicking people out of parks.

The slogans, new normal, frontline workers, key workers.

It's almost like we're being programmed out of fear.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Nudga.

Yep.Of course. But not the fear that you mean.

The perfectly valid fear is that if we didn't handle this correctly, there would likely be a three week period over the Summer in which 5-10,000 people a day would die in the UK alone. That is what it is about. That is why we have to take these (temporary) measures.

[Nudga]

I serviced a long time customers appliance today.
His brother died of Covid two weeks ago.
The brother went in with pneumonia and had two heart attacks but they've put it down to Covid, no post mortum.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Nudga

There's no need to look at individual cases. And to some extent it doesn't really matter precisely what people are dying of. Death rates are going up astronomically around the world.

Have a look at this.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

Surely you don't think there is a conspiracy going on, on this scale, to deceive everyone from Jakarta to Jacksonville?

[Nudga]

Of course it matters when it's in the papers that covid was the sole cause (in this case) that's medical fraud.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I suspect they are doing their best in unique times.

Look at that graph for England and Wales in the link I posted, Were are having twice as many deaths as normal. The doctors and coroners will be pushed to exhaustion.

And that's WITH the lockdown. If we hadn't had that, we'd  be pushing 5000 deaths a day now. I'd cut the medical and legal folks some slack if I were you.

[Nudga]

Twice as many deaths because some/most? are being signed off as Covid deaths.
Cut them some slack FFS!!

[BillyStubbsTears]

No Nudga.

Twice as many deaths of ALL causes.

Whatever people are dying of, there's twice as many deaths at the moment than we'd normally expect. and it's like that all round the world. In that sense, what they are signed off as is a second order importance thing. The first order thing is that that many people are dying.

[Nudga]

So if its not Covid 19 deaths and there's an increase in deaths for other reasons, should we be looking at why that is and having the same fear campaign thrust upon us?

What you wrote above strikes me as double standards. You've been pushing the daily covid death figures every day for weeks but I've given you 3 or 4 examples from real, local people dying of other things that have been passed off as Covid but now it doesn't matter what people are dying of?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Nudga.

Most of them WILL be CV-19 deaths. Yes, they will get a few wrong. Both ways. You need to look at the overall big picture, not individual cases.

And yes, there's an increase in other deaths because the health services all round the world are overstretched.

I'm not so naive as to think that there's never nefarious stuff going one, but for this to be a conspiracy, you'd need pretty much every (sane) politician, medic and epidemiologist in the world to be in on it.