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Author Topic: Brexit Dividend  (Read 31457 times)

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SydneyRover

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Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #540 on June 24, 2022, 01:15:07 pm by SydneyRover »
brexit is still labour's fault!

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Brexit was labour's fault

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« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 01:21:20 pm by SydneyRover »



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danumdon

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Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #541 on June 24, 2022, 01:31:11 pm by danumdon »
I dont know anyone who trust's Johnson.

Glyn_Wigley

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  • Posts: 11963
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #542 on June 24, 2022, 02:56:02 pm by Glyn_Wigley »
So in effect your thinking is.

I want a Labour government installed in 2024,

They will not be able to enact any policy that will reverse your belief that leaving the SM and CU had created.

They will need over a decade to undo all the polices in place that the Tories have implemented and bring forward coherent and workable policies that will enable this country to decide that being back in the SM and CU is worth the effort.

Why would we be voting for another decade and more of regurgitated upheaval after this last one, that MAY put us in a position we were last in two decades ago?

Is this going to be your selling point going forwards, are you expecting the country to vote for that!!

Do you think Labour should campaign to reverse Brexit DD? Or do you agree with their current position to honour the Brexit vote?

Like others have said, that ship has sailed and it would be in no parties interest to campaign to reverse anything.

What they should do now is to work to achieve the best possible outcome from the decision taken, if the Labour party had spent the last parliament working to ensure we had the very best outcome from the negotiations instead of running to Brussels and in effect sabotaging everything that could be achieved from leaving the SM and CU we would be in a very much stronger position now.

As to their "current position to honour the Brexit vote" means a great many different things to different people. If they win the next GE they have in effect made their task a great deal harder to implement meaningful and sustainable change due to their weasel words and actions during the negotiations.

Smokescreen to enable a large enough voting swing comes to mind before wholesale changes to their policy.

How many people could trust Starmer?

And what would be better for this country than what we have been left with now? What 'could be achieved' from leaving the SM and CU without resorting to the unicorns the ERG kept spewing out?

We have left. That has consequences. Those consequences can't be wished away.

wilts rover

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  • Posts: 10146
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #543 on June 24, 2022, 04:51:35 pm by wilts rover »
So in effect your thinking is.

I want a Labour government installed in 2024,

They will not be able to enact any policy that will reverse your belief that leaving the SM and CU had created.

They will need over a decade to undo all the polices in place that the Tories have implemented and bring forward coherent and workable policies that will enable this country to decide that being back in the SM and CU is worth the effort.

Why would we be voting for another decade and more of regurgitated upheaval after this last one, that MAY put us in a position we were last in two decades ago?

Is this going to be your selling point going forwards, are you expecting the country to vote for that!!

Do you think Labour should campaign to reverse Brexit DD? Or do you agree with their current position to honour the Brexit vote?

Like others have said, that ship has sailed and it would be in no parties interest to campaign to reverse anything.

What they should do now is to work to achieve the best possible outcome from the decision taken, if the Labour party had spent the last parliament working to ensure we had the very best outcome from the negotiations instead of running to Brussels and in effect sabotaging everything that could be achieved from leaving the SM and CU we would be in a very much stronger position now.

As to their "current position to honour the Brexit vote" means a great many different things to different people. If they win the next GE they have in effect made their task a great deal harder to implement meaningful and sustainable change due to their weasel words and actions during the negotiations.

Smokescreen to enable a large enough voting swing comes to mind before wholesale changes to their policy.

How many people could trust Starmer?

I have no idea about your last point DD but as I have said several times (and we are going to hear a lot more from now on) unless Starmer wins an outright majority in the next GE he will be in a coalition with a pro-rejoin party (maybe more than 1).

People need to be careful what they wish for.

danumdon

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  • Posts: 2343
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #544 on June 24, 2022, 06:37:58 pm by danumdon »
So in effect your thinking is.

I want a Labour government installed in 2024,

They will not be able to enact any policy that will reverse your belief that leaving the SM and CU had created.

They will need over a decade to undo all the polices in place that the Tories have implemented and bring forward coherent and workable policies that will enable this country to decide that being back in the SM and CU is worth the effort.

Why would we be voting for another decade and more of regurgitated upheaval after this last one, that MAY put us in a position we were last in two decades ago?

Is this going to be your selling point going forwards, are you expecting the country to vote for that!!

Do you think Labour should campaign to reverse Brexit DD? Or do you agree with their current position to honour the Brexit vote?

Like others have said, that ship has sailed and it would be in no parties interest to campaign to reverse anything.

What they should do now is to work to achieve the best possible outcome from the decision taken, if the Labour party had spent the last parliament working to ensure we had the very best outcome from the negotiations instead of running to Brussels and in effect sabotaging everything that could be achieved from leaving the SM and CU we would be in a very much stronger position now.

As to their "current position to honour the Brexit vote" means a great many different things to different people. If they win the next GE they have in effect made their task a great deal harder to implement meaningful and sustainable change due to their weasel words and actions during the negotiations.

Smokescreen to enable a large enough voting swing comes to mind before wholesale changes to their policy.

How many people could trust Starmer?

And what would be better for this country than what we have been left with now? What 'could be achieved' from leaving the SM and CU without resorting to the unicorns the ERG kept spewing out?

We have left. That has consequences. Those consequences can't be wished away.

What should of happened after the referendum was for the democratic process to be allowed to run its course, To persist and continue with a lost cause by the remainer cabal only resulted in the negotiation being high jacked and disrupted by Quislings and agitators which resulted in the final agreement being sub optimal.That was the time for all of parliament to get behind the deal and ensure we got he best deal possible, after all, we all as a nation now have to live by this process until as such time the electorate decide differently.

The time for agitation and protest in parliament would of been after this had been given its democratic mandate to run its course. Let the people of the country decide at the next GE.

After all is it not still the case that this demographic is supposed to "die out" before the next election and the new young intake of eligible voters will give it its just deserts?

Is this not the way the democratic process is supposed to work in this country?


danumdon

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  • Posts: 2343
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #545 on June 24, 2022, 06:43:07 pm by danumdon »
So in effect your thinking is.

I want a Labour government installed in 2024,

They will not be able to enact any policy that will reverse your belief that leaving the SM and CU had created.

They will need over a decade to undo all the polices in place that the Tories have implemented and bring forward coherent and workable policies that will enable this country to decide that being back in the SM and CU is worth the effort.

Why would we be voting for another decade and more of regurgitated upheaval after this last one, that MAY put us in a position we were last in two decades ago?

Is this going to be your selling point going forwards, are you expecting the country to vote for that!!

Do you think Labour should campaign to reverse Brexit DD? Or do you agree with their current position to honour the Brexit vote?

Like others have said, that ship has sailed and it would be in no parties interest to campaign to reverse anything.

What they should do now is to work to achieve the best possible outcome from the decision taken, if the Labour party had spent the last parliament working to ensure we had the very best outcome from the negotiations instead of running to Brussels and in effect sabotaging everything that could be achieved from leaving the SM and CU we would be in a very much stronger position now.

As to their "current position to honour the Brexit vote" means a great many different things to different people. If they win the next GE they have in effect made their task a great deal harder to implement meaningful and sustainable change due to their weasel words and actions during the negotiations.

Smokescreen to enable a large enough voting swing comes to mind before wholesale changes to their policy.

How many people could trust Starmer?

I have no idea about your last point DD but as I have said several times (and we are going to hear a lot more from now on) unless Starmer wins an outright majority in the next GE he will be in a coalition with a pro-rejoin party (maybe more than 1).

People need to be careful what they wish for.


Im sure you understood my last point very well, Starmer will say one thing to placate the leave voters of the left to persuade them to vote the correct way, Its not going to be beyond this ardent remainer to change his mind when he has a mandate that will enable him to have a large enough majority to enact his deceitful intentions.

Keith cannot be trusted to lie straight in bed never mind an election manifesto.

wilts rover

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 10146
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #546 on June 24, 2022, 06:54:49 pm by wilts rover »
So in effect your thinking is.

I want a Labour government installed in 2024,

They will not be able to enact any policy that will reverse your belief that leaving the SM and CU had created.

They will need over a decade to undo all the polices in place that the Tories have implemented and bring forward coherent and workable policies that will enable this country to decide that being back in the SM and CU is worth the effort.

Why would we be voting for another decade and more of regurgitated upheaval after this last one, that MAY put us in a position we were last in two decades ago?

Is this going to be your selling point going forwards, are you expecting the country to vote for that!!

Do you think Labour should campaign to reverse Brexit DD? Or do you agree with their current position to honour the Brexit vote?

Like others have said, that ship has sailed and it would be in no parties interest to campaign to reverse anything.

What they should do now is to work to achieve the best possible outcome from the decision taken, if the Labour party had spent the last parliament working to ensure we had the very best outcome from the negotiations instead of running to Brussels and in effect sabotaging everything that could be achieved from leaving the SM and CU we would be in a very much stronger position now.

As to their "current position to honour the Brexit vote" means a great many different things to different people. If they win the next GE they have in effect made their task a great deal harder to implement meaningful and sustainable change due to their weasel words and actions during the negotiations.

Smokescreen to enable a large enough voting swing comes to mind before wholesale changes to their policy.

How many people could trust Starmer?

I have no idea about your last point DD but as I have said several times (and we are going to hear a lot more from now on) unless Starmer wins an outright majority in the next GE he will be in a coalition with a pro-rejoin party (maybe more than 1).

People need to be careful what they wish for.


Im sure you understood my last point very well, Starmer will say one thing to placate the leave voters of the left to persuade them to vote the correct way, Its not going to be beyond this ardent remainer to change his mind when he has a mandate that will enable him to have a large enough majority to enact his deceitful intentions.

Keith cannot be trusted to lie straight in bed never mind an election manifesto.

As I said I have no idea on your last point DD. I understand it but am unable to put a number on it. It was just under 50% of the people who voted in Wakefield yesterday if that helps.

My other point still stands. The Lib Dems/SNP & Labour in Wales will take away Johnson's majority. Unless Starmer gets his own majority he will be in coaltion with a least one of these explicit pro re-join parties.

Its up to you how you vote when the time comes - but strong rumours that this could be as early as this Autumn (before cost of living really kicks in/ the standards enquiry & covid enquiry. Good luck.

BillyStubbsTears

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  • Posts: 36604
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #547 on June 24, 2022, 07:20:57 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Still claiming you're politically neutral DD?

drfchound

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  • Posts: 29201
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #548 on June 24, 2022, 08:09:29 pm by drfchound »
So in effect your thinking is.

I want a Labour government installed in 2024,

They will not be able to enact any policy that will reverse your belief that leaving the SM and CU had created.

They will need over a decade to undo all the polices in place that the Tories have implemented and bring forward coherent and workable policies that will enable this country to decide that being back in the SM and CU is worth the effort.

Why would we be voting for another decade and more of regurgitated upheaval after this last one, that MAY put us in a position we were last in two decades ago?

Is this going to be your selling point going forwards, are you expecting the country to vote for that!!

Do you think Labour should campaign to reverse Brexit DD? Or do you agree with their current position to honour the Brexit vote?

Wilts, I have been saying for some time now that those people bleating on about how bad Brexit is should accept the outcome of the vote and get on with their lives.
Those of us in the UK have to get on with things as we can’t change anything for the foreseeable future.
I have been bombed with expletives for daring to say that.
I voted remain by the way.
Out of interest, do you think we should honour the outcome of the vote?

Glyn_Wigley

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 11963
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #549 on June 24, 2022, 08:38:49 pm by Glyn_Wigley »
So in effect your thinking is.

I want a Labour government installed in 2024,

They will not be able to enact any policy that will reverse your belief that leaving the SM and CU had created.

They will need over a decade to undo all the polices in place that the Tories have implemented and bring forward coherent and workable policies that will enable this country to decide that being back in the SM and CU is worth the effort.

Why would we be voting for another decade and more of regurgitated upheaval after this last one, that MAY put us in a position we were last in two decades ago?

Is this going to be your selling point going forwards, are you expecting the country to vote for that!!

Do you think Labour should campaign to reverse Brexit DD? Or do you agree with their current position to honour the Brexit vote?

Like others have said, that ship has sailed and it would be in no parties interest to campaign to reverse anything.

What they should do now is to work to achieve the best possible outcome from the decision taken, if the Labour party had spent the last parliament working to ensure we had the very best outcome from the negotiations instead of running to Brussels and in effect sabotaging everything that could be achieved from leaving the SM and CU we would be in a very much stronger position now.

As to their "current position to honour the Brexit vote" means a great many different things to different people. If they win the next GE they have in effect made their task a great deal harder to implement meaningful and sustainable change due to their weasel words and actions during the negotiations.

Smokescreen to enable a large enough voting swing comes to mind before wholesale changes to their policy.

How many people could trust Starmer?

And what would be better for this country than what we have been left with now? What 'could be achieved' from leaving the SM and CU without resorting to the unicorns the ERG kept spewing out?

We have left. That has consequences. Those consequences can't be wished away.

What should of happened after the referendum was for the democratic process to be allowed to run its course, To persist and continue with a lost cause by the remainer cabal only resulted in the negotiation being high jacked and disrupted by Quislings and agitators which resulted in the final agreement being sub optimal.That was the time for all of parliament to get behind the deal and ensure we got he best deal possible, after all, we all as a nation now have to live by this process until as such time the electorate decide differently.

The time for agitation and protest in parliament would of been after this had been given its democratic mandate to run its course. Let the people of the country decide at the next GE.

After all is it not still the case that this demographic is supposed to "die out" before the next election and the new young intake of eligible voters will give it its just deserts?

Is this not the way the democratic process is supposed to work in this country?



Now that you've got all that waffle out of your system, perhaps you'll tell us all what we would have got different - and better - to what we have now, which is what I asked in the first place.

wilts rover

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  • Posts: 10146
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #550 on June 24, 2022, 09:53:05 pm by wilts rover »
So in effect your thinking is.

I want a Labour government installed in 2024,

They will not be able to enact any policy that will reverse your belief that leaving the SM and CU had created.

They will need over a decade to undo all the polices in place that the Tories have implemented and bring forward coherent and workable policies that will enable this country to decide that being back in the SM and CU is worth the effort.

Why would we be voting for another decade and more of regurgitated upheaval after this last one, that MAY put us in a position we were last in two decades ago?

Is this going to be your selling point going forwards, are you expecting the country to vote for that!!

Do you think Labour should campaign to reverse Brexit DD? Or do you agree with their current position to honour the Brexit vote?

Wilts, I have been saying for some time now that those people bleating on about how bad Brexit is should accept the outcome of the vote and get on with their lives.
Those of us in the UK have to get on with things as we can’t change anything for the foreseeable future.
I have been bombed with expletives for daring to say that.
I voted remain by the way.
Out of interest, do you think we should honour the outcome of the vote?

That's the problem tho DD - people esp politicians know that Johnson's Brexit deal is one of the factors making life worse for ordinary people - and will do for some time to come. What do they do about it?

Yes - but we should ammend Johnson's deal to get better trading conditions with the EU - is my answer btw (which is the current Labour policy I believe)

Not Now Kato

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  • Posts: 3034
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #551 on June 25, 2022, 12:31:22 pm by Not Now Kato »
So in effect your thinking is.

I want a Labour government installed in 2024,

They will not be able to enact any policy that will reverse your belief that leaving the SM and CU had created.

They will need over a decade to undo all the polices in place that the Tories have implemented and bring forward coherent and workable policies that will enable this country to decide that being back in the SM and CU is worth the effort.

Why would we be voting for another decade and more of regurgitated upheaval after this last one, that MAY put us in a position we were last in two decades ago?

Is this going to be your selling point going forwards, are you expecting the country to vote for that!!

Do you think Labour should campaign to reverse Brexit DD? Or do you agree with their current position to honour the Brexit vote?

Wilts, I have been saying for some time now that those people bleating on about how bad Brexit is should accept the outcome of the vote and get on with their lives.
Those of us in the UK have to get on with things as we can’t change anything for the foreseeable future.
I have been bombed with expletives for daring to say that.
I voted remain by the way.
Out of interest, do you think we should honour the outcome of the vote?

The 'vote' as you put it was advisory only, not mandatory.  So, in honouring the vote what SHOULD have happened was that a detailed set of proposals should have been drawn up by a Working Party comprising members of all parliamentary parties as to the mechanisms of exactly how and when we would leave the EU, with fully costed benefits and costed impacts of our doing so. These should then have been debated and amended in parliament with input from all parties before finally being put back to the public for confirmation.
 
But we are where we are, and the blame for the mess we're in falls firmly on the shoulders of the Tories for pressing ahead on their own agenda, regardless of the consequences!  But tell me, if you keep banging your head against a hard object do you continue to do so hoping the pain will eventually stop and things will improve because someone told you they would, or do you go back to what you were doing before you started doing something that it was clear was always going to hurt for a very very long time and have a rethink?
 
Of course, if you want to take honouring the referendum at face value, the only option to do that was to walk away from the EU in total; no negotiations, no deal of any kind, WTO rules, and a hard border between NI and the Republic with the associated breaking of the Good Friday Agreement, just walk away and be done - because that was the only option on the paper.

drfchound

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  • Posts: 29201
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #552 on June 25, 2022, 05:00:17 pm by drfchound »
Kato, there are some things  in your post that I agree with and I have always said that the public at large shouldn’t have been the people responsible for deciding whether we left the EU but I noticed that you didn’t reprimand wilts for mentioning “the vote” in his post that I quoted and responded to.
Maybe because he is on your side?

BigH

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  • Posts: 1449
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #553 on June 25, 2022, 07:08:34 pm by BigH »
So in effect your thinking is.

I want a Labour government installed in 2024,

They will not be able to enact any policy that will reverse your belief that leaving the SM and CU had created.

They will need over a decade to undo all the polices in place that the Tories have implemented and bring forward coherent and workable policies that will enable this country to decide that being back in the SM and CU is worth the effort.

Why would we be voting for another decade and more of regurgitated upheaval after this last one, that MAY put us in a position we were last in two decades ago?

Is this going to be your selling point going forwards, are you expecting the country to vote for that!!

Do you think Labour should campaign to reverse Brexit DD? Or do you agree with their current position to honour the Brexit vote?

Wilts, I have been saying for some time now that those people bleating on about how bad Brexit is should accept the outcome of the vote and get on with their lives.
Those of us in the UK have to get on with things as we can’t change anything for the foreseeable future.
I have been bombed with expletives for daring to say that.
I voted remain by the way.
Out of interest, do you think we should honour the outcome of the vote?
Irrespective of what anyone thinks, the outcome of the vote has been honoured. We have a signed, legally binding agreement with the EU that says so.

drfchound

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 29201
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #554 on June 25, 2022, 07:13:07 pm by drfchound »
So in effect your thinking is.

I want a Labour government installed in 2024,

They will not be able to enact any policy that will reverse your belief that leaving the SM and CU had created.

They will need over a decade to undo all the polices in place that the Tories have implemented and bring forward coherent and workable policies that will enable this country to decide that being back in the SM and CU is worth the effort.

Why would we be voting for another decade and more of regurgitated upheaval after this last one, that MAY put us in a position we were last in two decades ago?

Is this going to be your selling point going forwards, are you expecting the country to vote for that!!

Do you think Labour should campaign to reverse Brexit DD? Or do you agree with their current position to honour the Brexit vote?

Wilts, I have been saying for some time now that those people bleating on about how bad Brexit is should accept the outcome of the vote and get on with their lives.
Those of us in the UK have to get on with things as we can’t change anything for the foreseeable future.
I have been bombed with expletives for daring to say that.
I voted remain by the way.
Out of interest, do you think we should honour the outcome of the vote?
Irrespective of what anyone thinks, the outcome of the vote has been honoured. We have a signed, legally binding agreement with the EU that says so.

 :that:

wilts rover

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 10146
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #555 on June 25, 2022, 07:24:25 pm by wilts rover »
Kato, there are some things  in your post that I agree with and I have always said that the public at large shouldn’t have been the people responsible for deciding whether we left the EU but I noticed that you didn’t reprimand wilts for mentioning “the vote” in his post that I quoted and responded to.
Maybe because he is on your side?

People should be repremanded for asking questions should they hound?

Well, what can you say...

The question to DD (in response to his question to BST about future Labour policy on trade with Europe) was about what he thinks future Labour Party policy should be. Clearly they have to have one.

wilts rover

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 10146
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #556 on June 25, 2022, 07:29:52 pm by wilts rover »
So in effect your thinking is.

I want a Labour government installed in 2024,

They will not be able to enact any policy that will reverse your belief that leaving the SM and CU had created.

They will need over a decade to undo all the polices in place that the Tories have implemented and bring forward coherent and workable policies that will enable this country to decide that being back in the SM and CU is worth the effort.

Why would we be voting for another decade and more of regurgitated upheaval after this last one, that MAY put us in a position we were last in two decades ago?

Is this going to be your selling point going forwards, are you expecting the country to vote for that!!

Do you think Labour should campaign to reverse Brexit DD? Or do you agree with their current position to honour the Brexit vote?

Wilts, I have been saying for some time now that those people bleating on about how bad Brexit is should accept the outcome of the vote and get on with their lives.
Those of us in the UK have to get on with things as we can’t change anything for the foreseeable future.
I have been bombed with expletives for daring to say that.
I voted remain by the way.
Out of interest, do you think we should honour the outcome of the vote?
Irrespective of what anyone thinks, the outcome of the vote has been honoured. We have a signed, legally binding agreement with the EU that says so.

It's clearly not. Johnson has been saying for weeks that he disagrees with the person who agreed and signed the deal - because he disagrees with some of the things in it and wants to/is going to/ change it.

In fact I notice in on of the interviews today he said that this deal has not 'got Brexit done' - but is instead only the beginning of what could be a long process. Hmmm...

drfchound

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 29201
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #557 on June 25, 2022, 07:35:59 pm by drfchound »
Kato, there are some things  in your post that I agree with and I have always said that the public at large shouldn’t have been the people responsible for deciding whether we left the EU but I noticed that you didn’t reprimand wilts for mentioning “the vote” in his post that I quoted and responded to.
Maybe because he is on your side?

People should be repremanded for asking questions should they hound?

Well, what can you say...

The question to DD (in response to his question to BST about future Labour policy on trade with Europe) was about what he thinks future Labour Party policy should be. Clearly they have to have one.

Wilts, you have picked up the wrong end of the stick matey.
Read the the opening sentence of Katos volley at me and he says “the vote, as you put it”.
I was explaining to him that you had used the expression (vote) and asked him why he hadn’t jumped on you, rather than me, for calling the vote, the vote, so to speak.
I never suggested that people should be reprimanded for asking questions.

wilts rover

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 10146
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #558 on June 25, 2022, 07:47:42 pm by wilts rover »
Kato, there are some things  in your post that I agree with and I have always said that the public at large shouldn’t have been the people responsible for deciding whether we left the EU but I noticed that you didn’t reprimand wilts for mentioning “the vote” in his post that I quoted and responded to.
Maybe because he is on your side?

People should be repremanded for asking questions should they hound?

Well, what can you say...

The question to DD (in response to his question to BST about future Labour policy on trade with Europe) was about what he thinks future Labour Party policy should be. Clearly they have to have one.

Wilts, you have picked up the wrong end of the stick matey.
Read the the opening sentence of Katos volley at me and he says “the vote, as you put it”.
I was explaining to him that you had used the expression (vote) and asked him why he hadn’t jumped on you, rather than me, for calling the vote, the vote, so to speak.
I never suggested that people should be reprimanded for asking questions.

I have picked up exactly on what you wrote hound. I asked a very simple question and you asked Kato why he didn't repremand me for asking it.

If you want to argue with Kato thats between you and him, dont go dragging me into it just for the sake of it - or you will need to justify doing it.

ravenrover

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  • Posts: 9511
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #559 on June 25, 2022, 08:03:39 pm by ravenrover »
So in effect your thinking is.

I want a Labour government installed in 2024,

They will not be able to enact any policy that will reverse your belief that leaving the SM and CU had created.

They will need over a decade to undo all the polices in place that the Tories have implemented and bring forward coherent and workable policies that will enable this country to decide that being back in the SM and CU is worth the effort.

Why would we be voting for another decade and more of regurgitated upheaval after this last one, that MAY put us in a position we were last in two decades ago?

Is this going to be your selling point going forwards, are you expecting the country to vote for that!!

Do you think Labour should campaign to reverse Brexit DD? Or do you agree with their current position to honour the Brexit vote?

Wilts, I have been saying for some time now that those people bleating on about how bad Brexit is should accept the outcome of the vote and get on with their lives.
Those of us in the UK have to get on with things as we can’t change anything for the foreseeable future.
I have been bombed with expletives for daring to say that.
I voted remain by the way.
Out of interest, do you think we should honour the outcome of the vote?
Irrespective of what anyone thinks, the outcome of the vote has been honoured. We have a signed, legally binding agreement with the EU that says so.
Legally binding until it doesn't suit you mean

drfchound

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 29201
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #560 on June 25, 2022, 08:48:29 pm by drfchound »
Kato, there are some things  in your post that I agree with and I have always said that the public at large shouldn’t have been the people responsible for deciding whether we left the EU but I noticed that you didn’t reprimand wilts for mentioning “the vote” in his post that I quoted and responded to.
Maybe because he is on your side?

People should be repremanded for asking questions should they hound?

Well, what can you say...

The question to DD (in response to his question to BST about future Labour policy on trade with Europe) was about what he thinks future Labour Party policy should be. Clearly they have to have one.

Wilts, you have picked up the wrong end of the stick matey.
Read the the opening sentence of Katos volley at me and he says “the vote, as you put it”.
I was explaining to him that you had used the expression (vote) and asked him why he hadn’t jumped on you, rather than me, for calling the vote, the vote, so to speak.
I never suggested that people should be reprimanded for asking questions.

I have picked up exactly on what you wrote hound. I asked a very simple question and you asked Kato why he didn't repremand me for asking it.

If you want to argue with Kato thats between you and him, dont go dragging me into it just for the sake of it - or you will need to justify doing it.

But I am justifying it wilts.
None of my comment was aimed at you.
I simply asked Kato why he jumped on me for saying “the vote”,instead of jumping on you for saying “the vote.”
You are being very sensitive about something that doesn’t exist.

Not Now Kato

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 3034
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #561 on June 25, 2022, 11:05:30 pm by Not Now Kato »
Kato, there are some things  in your post that I agree with and I have always said that the public at large shouldn’t have been the people responsible for deciding whether we left the EU but I noticed that you didn’t reprimand wilts for mentioning “the vote” in his post that I quoted and responded to.
Maybe because he is on your side?

People should be repremanded for asking questions should they hound?

Well, what can you say...

The question to DD (in response to his question to BST about future Labour policy on trade with Europe) was about what he thinks future Labour Party policy should be. Clearly they have to have one.

Wilts, you have picked up the wrong end of the stick matey.
Read the the opening sentence of Katos volley at me and he says “the vote, as you put it”.
I was explaining to him that you had used the expression (vote) and asked him why he hadn’t jumped on you, rather than me, for calling the vote, the vote, so to speak.
I never suggested that people should be reprimanded for asking questions.

I have picked up exactly on what you wrote hound. I asked a very simple question and you asked Kato why he didn't repremand me for asking it.

If you want to argue with Kato thats between you and him, dont go dragging me into it just for the sake of it - or you will need to justify doing it.

But I am justifying it wilts.
None of my comment was aimed at you.
I simply asked Kato why he jumped on me for saying “the vote”,instead of jumping on you for saying “the vote.”
You are being very sensitive about something that doesn’t exist.

Hound, I haven’t ‘jumped’ on anyone. I simply stated what I believed should have happened given the scenario of the 2016 referendum, and the reason we are in the mess we currently are with respect to leaving the EU. It was you who asked should we honour the result of the referendum, I simply gave my view on that question - or are you suggesting I should be barred from giving my opinion?
 
I stand by my response to your question, wholeheartedly.

SydneyRover

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  • Posts: 13582
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #562 on June 26, 2022, 12:56:09 am by SydneyRover »
And the head banging continues.

SydneyRover

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  • Posts: 13582
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #563 on June 26, 2022, 01:11:29 am by SydneyRover »
I know it's for the Sunday media but ...............

''On 23 June 2016, Geoffrey Betts, the managing director of a small office supplies business in Marlow, Buckinghamshire, had high hopes for his firm, and the British economy, when he voted for Brexit.

I thought we would be like … ‘here we go, here we go. We are going to become the most competitive country in Europe and we are going to be encouraging business.’ Now I think: ‘What have we done?’”

His firm, Stewart Superior, has survived, but not without major restructuring and huge efforts to get around obstacles that Brexit has put in the way of the export side of the business.

In late 2020 Betts decided there was no option but to set up a depot inside the EU single market – in the Netherlands – at considerable expense, to avoid costly delays in transit, mountains of Brexit-related paperwork at the border, and VAT issues when sending goods to customers on the continent.

The switch means that, 18 months on, he has retained a decent slice of trade with customers inside the EU. But because his goods are now distributed from the Dutch depot, tax revenues which would have gone to the UK exchequer now go to the Dutch government instead. Jobs have been created in Holland, not here. Goods that would have been transported from the UK – and created work and employment here – are instead sent direct from the Netherlands to EU destinations, including Ireland.

Last year, with Covid adding to its problems, Stewart Superior lost money for the first time in 20 years''


The bit I don't get is why he would have ever thought that in the first place.

I know, I know, the stories about the sunny uplands and unicorns ........ but hard headed business sense should have come to the fore, surely, and alarm bells should have been ringing ........

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/25/what-have-we-done-six-years-on-uk-counts-the-cost-of-brexit



SydneyRover

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  • Posts: 13582
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #564 on June 26, 2022, 01:47:27 am by SydneyRover »
And from the same link above .........

''Last week the chief executive of easyJet, Johan Lundgren, contradicted claims by the aviation minister Robert Courts (and Tyke) that it was “not likely” Brexit had caused staff shortages which have led to disruption at airports. Lundgren countered that 8,000 job applications from EU citizens had been rejected by his firm because candidates did not have permission to work in the UK''




wilts rover

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 10146
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #565 on June 26, 2022, 09:02:05 am by wilts rover »
Kato, there are some things  in your post that I agree with and I have always said that the public at large shouldn’t have been the people responsible for deciding whether we left the EU but I noticed that you didn’t reprimand wilts for mentioning “the vote” in his post that I quoted and responded to.
Maybe because he is on your side?

People should be repremanded for asking questions should they hound?

Well, what can you say...

The question to DD (in response to his question to BST about future Labour policy on trade with Europe) was about what he thinks future Labour Party policy should be. Clearly they have to have one.

Wilts, you have picked up the wrong end of the stick matey.
Read the the opening sentence of Katos volley at me and he says “the vote, as you put it”.
I was explaining to him that you had used the expression (vote) and asked him why he hadn’t jumped on you, rather than me, for calling the vote, the vote, so to speak.
I never suggested that people should be reprimanded for asking questions.

I have picked up exactly on what you wrote hound. I asked a very simple question and you asked Kato why he didn't repremand me for asking it.

If you want to argue with Kato thats between you and him, dont go dragging me into it just for the sake of it - or you will need to justify doing it.

But I am justifying it wilts.
None of my comment was aimed at you.
I simply asked Kato why he jumped on me for saying “the vote”,instead of jumping on you for saying “the vote.”
You are being very sensitive about something that doesn’t exist.

Yes - and you think I should be reprimanded for asking a question - which you then deny.

You are writing these things down for eveyone to read hound.

tyke1962

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 3760
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #566 on June 26, 2022, 09:23:50 am by tyke1962 »
And from the same link above .........

''Last week the chief executive of easyJet, Johan Lundgren, contradicted claims by the aviation minister Robert Courts (and Tyke) that it was “not likely” Brexit had caused staff shortages which have led to disruption at airports. Lundgren countered that 8,000 job applications from EU citizens had been rejected by his firm because candidates did not have permission to work in the UK''

And yet Johan Lundgren told investors only last month .

 " strong momentum and optimism as we are flying at near level pre pandemic capacity "

 " We are benefiting from pent up demand and the removal of travel restrictions "

 " The Easter holiday period saw us carrying 250k passengers a day "


SydneyRover

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  • Posts: 13582

drfchound

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 29201
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #568 on June 26, 2022, 09:46:02 am by drfchound »
Kato, there are some things  in your post that I agree with and I have always said that the public at large shouldn’t have been the people responsible for deciding whether we left the EU but I noticed that you didn’t reprimand wilts for mentioning “the vote” in his post that I quoted and responded to.
Maybe because he is on your side?

People should be repremanded for asking questions should they hound?

Well, what can you say...

The question to DD (in response to his question to BST about future Labour policy on trade with Europe) was about what he thinks future Labour Party policy should be. Clearly they have to have one.

Wilts, you have picked up the wrong end of the stick matey.
Read the the opening sentence of Katos volley at me and he says “the vote, as you put it”.
I was explaining to him that you had used the expression (vote) and asked him why he hadn’t jumped on you, rather than me, for calling the vote, the vote, so to speak.
I never suggested that people should be reprimanded for asking questions.

I have picked up exactly on what you wrote hound. I asked a very simple question and you asked Kato why he didn't repremand me for asking it.

If you want to argue with Kato thats between you and him, dont go dragging me into it just for the sake of it - or you will need to justify doing it.

But I am justifying it wilts.
None of my comment was aimed at you.
I simply asked Kato why he jumped on me for saying “the vote”,instead of jumping on you for saying “the vote.”
You are being very sensitive about something that doesn’t exist.

Hound, I haven’t ‘jumped’ on anyone. I simply stated what I believed should have happened given the scenario of the 2016 referendum, and the reason we are in the mess we currently are with respect to leaving the EU. It was you who asked should we honour the result of the referendum, I simply gave my view on that question - or are you suggesting I should be barred from giving my opinion?
 
I stand by my response to your question, wholeheartedly.


Kato, in my previous reply to you I said that I agreed with most of what you had written.
But then you have slightly altered the context of my post.
Your words were “it was you who asked if we should honour the result of the referendum”.
But I didn’t , I simply asked wilts that question, not everyone else, in my direct reply to him after he quoted my post.
I had earlier said that I think we have to honour the result of the referendum because there isn’t anything we can do right now to change that decision.

This is getting really silly and drawn out now.
You wrote the words below and directed them to me:

“The 'vote' as you put it”


You and I have a history on here of not getting along, probably due to you being an avid Labour supporter and me not agreeing with some of the stuff you sometimes write.
I do sometimes agree with what you write by the way.

When you wrote what you did about “the vote” part of a post of mine I had thought how odd it was that you didn’t pick up on wilts using “the vote” but chose to do so to me.

That’s it, that’s all it was.

Oh, and by the way, no I don’t think you should be barred from giving your opinion on stuff.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2022, 09:48:08 am by drfchound »

drfchound

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 29201
Re: Brexit Dividend
« Reply #569 on June 26, 2022, 09:52:29 am by drfchound »
Kato, there are some things  in your post that I agree with and I have always said that the public at large shouldn’t have been the people responsible for deciding whether we left the EU but I noticed that you didn’t reprimand wilts for mentioning “the vote” in his post that I quoted and responded to.
Maybe because he is on your side?

People should be repremanded for asking questions should they hound?

Well, what can you say...

The question to DD (in response to his question to BST about future Labour policy on trade with Europe) was about what he thinks future Labour Party policy should be. Clearly they have to have one.

Wilts, you have picked up the wrong end of the stick matey.
Read the the opening sentence of Katos volley at me and he says “the vote, as you put it”.
I was explaining to him that you had used the expression (vote) and asked him why he hadn’t jumped on you, rather than me, for calling the vote, the vote, so to speak.
I never suggested that people should be reprimanded for asking questions.

I have picked up exactly on what you wrote hound. I asked a very simple question and you asked Kato why he didn't repremand me for asking it.

If you want to argue with Kato thats between you and him, dont go dragging me into it just for the sake of it - or you will need to justify doing it.

But I am justifying it wilts.
None of my comment was aimed at you.
I simply asked Kato why he jumped on me for saying “the vote”,instead of jumping on you for saying “the vote.”
You are being very sensitive about something that doesn’t exist.

Yes - and you think I should be reprimanded for asking a question - which you then deny.

You are writing these things down for eveyone to read hound.

Also out of context wilts.
Do you REALLY think that I was suggesting you should be reprimanded for asking a question.
No way on this Earth can my posts to you be considered to be saying that.
This is all about two words, “the vote”.
I am saddened if you think I am doing as you say.

 

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