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Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 860417 times)

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Pancho Regan

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #720 on March 17, 2020, 12:42:35 pm by Pancho Regan »
The added worry is, in times of national crisis, you desperately need strong leaders.
Leaders with wisdom, clarity of thought, with exceptional communication skills.

I don't see any.

 

And we think WE have problems Pancho.

https://mobile.twitter.com/OleGranny2/status/1239688980028891141

Quite right BST.

My Missus and I were saying this last night. We might think we have an incompetent PM but just imagine what it must be like to have Trump as your leader, especially at a time like this.




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Copps is Magic

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #721 on March 17, 2020, 12:50:34 pm by Copps is Magic »
Money.. simple as that, I reckon..
A big factor for sure.

Makes you wonder whether they could/should have set up testing sites in every major supermarket car park weeks ago. Too late now.

No wonder Sth Korea and Singapore are p**sed off after the lengths they've gone to.

The issue for Singapore now is food supply, it essentially being an island and completely dependent on food imports.

I studied the the 2007-08 food crisis (mostly in Asia) during my undergrad days. What actually happens is richer countries (like Singapore) start to stockpile foodstuffs (Singapore practices widespread state stockpiling of food already) and that translates into lower supply for the surrounding poorer Asian countries. Poorer people in those poorer countries will be the first affected.

River Don

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #722 on March 17, 2020, 12:56:26 pm by River Don »
A report from China of some success with Vitamin C. That would be a nice cheap solution.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/three-intravenous-vitamin-c-research-studies-approved-treating-covid-19/5705405


Whatever getting extra vitamin C now is a good idea. It helps the immune system. A little and often is best, keep sipping a carton of orange juice.

Come to think of it, in relation to this, it'll be a good idea to lay off alcohol and caffeine too.

adamtherover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #723 on March 17, 2020, 01:12:08 pm by adamtherover »
Schools will be shut nationwide by next Monday at the latest. Universities too, although many have already made the decision for the Govt

has this got any substance BST, or is it an opinion?.  not that i doubt it happening for a second?  Ive a lad at primary skool..

Monkcaster_Rover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #724 on March 17, 2020, 01:16:14 pm by Monkcaster_Rover »
Schools will be shut nationwide by next Monday at the latest. Universities too, although many have already made the decision for the Govt

has this got any substance BST, or is it an opinion?.  not that i doubt it happening for a second?  Ive a lad at primary skool..

A lad I live with his uni has been shut down. Everything being done online.

IMO, I believe we haven't shut schools down is due to the fact a lot of the NHS work force are nurses with kids in schools.

If I get forced to work from home, my line of work will drop off massively. I'll be looking at volunteering my services (if allowed) at local hospitals if allowed.

Probably won't be, but it'll be worth an ask.

All hands on deck where possible, I think.

Copps is Magic

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #725 on March 17, 2020, 01:20:05 pm by Copps is Magic »
I posted earlier, in several countries where they have closed down schools they stay open for essential service workers. Hope the UK does the same.

idler

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #726 on March 17, 2020, 01:29:58 pm by idler »
My daughter has two boys. The eldest is in his final year at Cambridge he was sent home and got back yesterday. His younger brother was sent home from his course in Frankfurt on Saturday as one of the tutors there had apparently tested positive. My daughter is a primary school teacher in Bradford and they are having daily review meetings.
One step-daughter is a civilian worker for the police and they have been told that they may have to cover police officers in desk jobs etc. if the uniformed and detectives have to cover colleagues who are off sick.
There must be so much going off in the background that we aren't aware of.

albie

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #727 on March 17, 2020, 02:02:55 pm by albie »
Someone asked for a summary of the Imperial report, here is the FT version;
https://www.ft.com/content/249daf9a-67c3-11ea-800d-da70cff6e4d3

Wired also has a version:
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/coronavirus-uk-suppression-response

Just seen CSO Vallance answering questions from former Health Sec Jeremy Hunt and others.
Very keen to stress that he is an ADVISOR, and so gives ADVICE to the decision makers.
"All I can do is give the science advice" I heard him say.

Tells you all you need to know really!
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 02:30:24 pm by albie »

albie

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #728 on March 17, 2020, 03:04:04 pm by albie »
7 weeks.
That is the time wasted on "herd immunity" and the Nudge Unit behavioural advice.

The editor of the Lancet tweets about it here;
https://twitter.com/richardhorton1/status/1239807835984273408

The original article in the Lancet from January 24 is here;
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30183-5/fulltext

So if you here the new information line trotted out, yes, there is always new information as a crisis develops, but the UK could have taken a precautionary stance much sooner.

Nudga

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #729 on March 17, 2020, 04:05:34 pm by Nudga »
Isolation for me!
Started yesterday with what I thought was a bit of hay-fever. Scratchy eyes, sneezing, foggy head.
Today, dry cough. Had a call earlier from the missus and was told the school had sent home my two boys who have started with a dry repetitive cough.

Got to be honest and say that I feel like a bloody fraud.
I never have time off unless I can't physically get out of bed.
I don't know if I have it or not and I'm still pissed off with the scaremongering but still doing the right thing and staying at home for a few days.

#prayfornudga
#washyourf**kinhands

drfchound

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #730 on March 17, 2020, 04:09:43 pm by drfchound »
Did anyone actually have any faith in the decision makers in the UK actually doing a good job of this? It was obvious they would make a mess of it. Slow to react, indecisive and probably worst of all they make decisions based on factors other than what if the right thing to do.






It isn’t just the decision makers in the UK who are getting stick from the public Gaz.
Sydney tells us that it is much the same in Australia.

Ldr

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #731 on March 17, 2020, 04:10:23 pm by Ldr »
Isolation for me!
Started yesterday with what I thought was a bit of hay-fever. Scratchy eyes, sneezing, foggy head.
Today, dry cough. Had a call earlier from the missus and was told the school had sent home my two boys who have started with a dry repetitive cough.

Got to be honest and say that I feel like a bloody fraud.
I never have time off unless I can't physically get out of bed.
I don't know if I have it or not and I'm still pissed off with the scaremongering but still doing the right thing and staying at home for a few days.

#prayfornudga
#washyourf**kinhands

Stay safe mate

Colin C No.3

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #732 on March 17, 2020, 05:18:58 pm by Colin C No.3 »
The added worry is, in times of national crisis, you desperately need strong leaders.
Leaders with wisdom, clarity of thought, with exceptional communication skills.

I don't see any.

 

Amen to that.

Johnson has always fancied himself as Churchill. Let's hope the similarity extends to more than just a liking for the bottle.

He’s very keen to remind the Nation (usually when he’s stuttered over a question asked by Laura Kuenssberg) “Wash your hands.....regularly” then proceeds to run his hands through that bloody mop on top of his head!

Would you want to shake that hand?!

Bristol Red Rover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #733 on March 17, 2020, 05:33:11 pm by Bristol Red Rover »
Possibly the best perspective I've seen on this. Be warned, not immediately simple to follow, but is very clear. A 10 min vid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_AyuhbnPOI

As far as I've been able to see, even those most likely to criticise aren't finding issues.
https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/46056/is-covid-19-more-dangerous-than-typical-annual-coronavirus-variants

This guy has history, being a prime mover
http://www.pharmatimes.com/news/eu_to_probe_pharma_over_false_pandemic_982876
in what resulted in this.
http://www.pharmatimes.com/news/council_of_europe_assembly_slams_who,_pharma_over_pandemic_983020


BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #734 on March 17, 2020, 05:56:50 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Schools will be shut nationwide by next Monday at the latest. Universities too, although many have already made the decision for the Govt

has this got any substance BST, or is it an opinion?.  not that i doubt it happening for a second?  Ive a lad at primary skool..

It's my prediction.

Based on the assumption that our Govt will make logical, rational decisions, so I entirely accept that it may be flawed.

Seriously, I cannot see how anyone can read that Imperial College paper from last night and not realise that we are going into very serious lockdown from next week at the earliest.

Copps is Magic

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #735 on March 17, 2020, 06:01:54 pm by Copps is Magic »
Possibly the best perspective I've seen on this. Be warned, not immediately simple to follow, but is very clear. A 10 min vid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_AyuhbnPOI

As far as I've been able to see, even those most likely to criticise aren't finding issues.
https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/46056/is-covid-19-more-dangerous-than-typical-annual-coronavirus-variants

This guy has history, being a prime mover
http://www.pharmatimes.com/news/eu_to_probe_pharma_over_false_pandemic_982876
in what resulted in this.
http://www.pharmatimes.com/news/council_of_europe_assembly_slams_who,_pharma_over_pandemic_983020

Its an interesting debate, and I think one that will go way over people's heads.

But essentially, we can surely test what he is saying, right? I.e. is this is a typical flu/corona season or not based on what we would usually expect in a normal year vs. the year we are currently in.

I do agree with the broad issue that the testing is all over the place, and I do not understand how any scientist infers anything with a degree of confidence from the data we have.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #736 on March 17, 2020, 06:09:08 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Copps

This is not a 5-sigma confidence issue. In many sectors, vitally important decisions have to be taken with seriously imperfect data.

That's why pure scientists have relatively little direct and immediate impact on the world. Their research is idealised and esoteric. It may well point the way to the massive changes that affect us in 50-100 years time, but it's next to useless in terms of helping day-to-day decisions.

For that, you rely on applied research  scientists and engineers, who accept the real, messy, imperfect world, and do real, messy, imperfect research. It's not categorical. But it's the best you can do. And we would be taking unfathomable risks to ignore what they are saying, when the risks are so high.

adamtherover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #737 on March 17, 2020, 06:11:13 pm by adamtherover »
Schools will be shut nationwide by next Monday at the latest. Universities too, although many have already made the decision for the Govt

has this got any substance BST, or is it an opinion?.  not that i doubt it happening for a second?  Ive a lad at primary skool..

It's my prediction.

Based on the assumption that our Govt will make logical, rational decisions, so I entirely accept that it may be flawed.

Seriously, I cannot see how anyone can read that Imperial College paper from last night and not realise that we are going into very serious lockdown from next week at the earliest.
thanks mate for the heads up, 

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #738 on March 17, 2020, 06:27:31 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
No problem.

I've just got in from work so I haven't seen Johnson's press conference. If he's not announced the school closure, that is just...beyond belief. How the f**k are people supposed to plan? It is as plain as day from that paper. If we do not go into a serious lockdown by "late March", the NHS starts falling over by mid-April.

Bristol Red Rover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #739 on March 17, 2020, 07:02:09 pm by Bristol Red Rover »
Possibly the best perspective I've seen on this. Be warned, not immediately simple to follow, but is very clear. A 10 min vid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_AyuhbnPOI

As far as I've been able to see, even those most likely to criticise aren't finding issues.
https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/46056/is-covid-19-more-dangerous-than-typical-annual-coronavirus-variants

This guy has history, being a prime mover
http://www.pharmatimes.com/news/eu_to_probe_pharma_over_false_pandemic_982876
in what resulted in this.
http://www.pharmatimes.com/news/council_of_europe_assembly_slams_who,_pharma_over_pandemic_983020

Its an interesting debate, and I think one that will go way over people's heads.

But essentially, we can surely test what he is saying, right? I.e. is this is a typical flu/corona season or not based on what we would usually expect in a normal year vs. the year we are currently in.

I do agree with the broad issue that the testing is all over the place, and I do not understand how any scientist infers anything with a degree of confidence from the data we have.

I'd need to watch it again again to give a summary! But he is say, as are others, that there is little to show this whole thing is outside the ordinary. Here's another link from a Swiss doctor re Italy suggesting little outside the ordinary is occuring:
https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

I think the real evidence will show eventually, but so far I think what he is saying needs to be considered very seriously. WHO has a history of being very pro pharma, as is shown in one of those links. As to why this has been whipped up... I guess if you look at result s of the panic so far, it's around 10-3 to China, just saying!

River Don

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #740 on March 18, 2020, 08:30:04 am by River Don »
The Japanese appear to have something that is quite effective with those sick but not in a critical condition.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/18/japanese-flu-drug-clearly-effective-in-treating-coronavirus-says-china

jackthelad

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #741 on March 18, 2020, 10:34:08 am by jackthelad »
When do people expect the lockdown to come into place?surely a matter of time?

sha66y

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #742 on March 18, 2020, 10:39:04 am by sha66y »
A guy was turned away from my place of work......drives a Toyota Corona!

The worlds gone mad ....politically mad!

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #743 on March 18, 2020, 11:00:39 am by SydneyRover »
The Aus gov't is not closing schools saying that we would lose 1/3 of medical staff having to stay home to look after them and the possibility that grandparents would look after a lot of them and be at further risk.

Metalmicky

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #744 on March 18, 2020, 11:29:09 am by Metalmicky »
The Aus gov't is not closing schools saying that we would lose 1/3 of medical staff having to stay home to look after them and the possibility that grandparents would look after a lot of them and be at further risk.

There is logic in that...

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #745 on March 18, 2020, 11:36:55 am by SydneyRover »
It's hard to know, if the figures are right about the numbers of parents working in the medical field? but they could be taking a gamble that kids mixing at school don't get it and pass the virus on to these same parents.

Metalmicky

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #746 on March 18, 2020, 11:42:51 am by Metalmicky »
It's hard to know, if the figures are right about the numbers of parents working in the medical field? but they could be taking a gamble that kids mixing at school don't get it and pass the virus on to these same parents.

Agreed... although the kids seem to be more robust that us adults...

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #747 on March 18, 2020, 11:49:31 am by SydneyRover »
yep, and we won't know that until the gov't steps up testing which seems to be a problem in many countries.

River Don

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #748 on March 18, 2020, 11:57:18 am by River Don »
The Aus gov't is not closing schools saying that we would lose 1/3 of medical staff having to stay home to look after them and the possibility that grandparents would look after a lot of them and be at further risk.

I think that is short sighted. Kids are potentially super spreaders, one gets infected goes to school for a week without symptoms and the majority have it. Then they go home in the evening and mum and dad get it.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #749 on March 18, 2020, 01:11:51 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
The Aus gov't is not closing schools saying that we would lose 1/3 of medical staff having to stay home to look after them and the possibility that grandparents would look after a lot of them and be at further risk.

I think that is short sighted. Kids are potentially super spreaders, one gets infected goes to school for a week without symptoms and the majority have it. Then they go home in the evening and mum and dad get it.

It is very short sighted. According to the Imperial College modelling, shutting schools and Universities is key to being able to contain the epidemics in each country to levels that the health services can deal with.

 

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