Coronavirus

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bang on Tyke.

A Tory cabinet minister a few years ago summed it up (I'll try and dig out who it was).

He said that under Thatcher they had a reputation for being competent callous bas**rds. But the latest generation were starting to look like incompetent callous bas**rds.

Just close your eyes and try to imagine Thatcher bragging about shaking hands in a CV-19 hospital, hours after being told by advisers that physical contact was a sure fire way of spreading the virus.

Just close your eyes and imagine Thatcher being told that we faced a threat which was going to kill 500,000 people in 3-4 months if we didn't control it, then not attending a meeting on the subject for 5 weeks while she went of on holiday to unlock her car crash of a private life.

[drfchound]

That was borne out of frustration BST and I apologise.
However you do talk down to people on a regular basis and very often to me.
By the way, you have had some posts recently which have been corrected by other posters and you have acknowledged that you were wrong.
Had you not been challenged then your (incorrect) posts would have been accepted to be true by the majority on here.
Did I call you a liar, I seem to recall something from a long time ago but I think it resulted in you accepting that I hadn’t.
I am not going to waste time looking back for that instance but I expect you will do.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hound.

Apology accepted.

I'm far from perfect. Which is why I try to back up everything I claim with evidence. You are on record as saying that you don't read that.

The last post that I had "corrected" by someone led to you and others filling your boots with playground jibes. Except I hadn't been "corrected". Someone else gave a firmly put different opinion. Which actually was contradicted by the facts. If you were thoughtful about having a grown up discussion, you'd have reflected on that.

You HAVE called me a liar in here. You said I was making stuff up to suit an argument, when I was actually setting out established facts.

Please have a look at your own behaviour before you start criticising others'

[drfchound]

Hound.

Apology accepted.

I'm far from perfect. Which is why I try to back up everything I claim with evidence. You are on record as saying that you don't read that.

The last post that I had "corrected" by someone led to you and others filling your boots with playground jibes. Except I hadn't been "corrected". Someone else gave a firmly put different opinion. Which actually was contradicted by the facts. If you were thoughtful about having a grown up discussion, you'd have reflected on that.

You HAVE called me a liar in here. You said I was making stuff up to suit an argument, when I was actually setting out established facts.

Please have a look at your own behaviour before you start criticising others'

There was more than “the last post” that you mention though.there were several posts recently that were challenged (by SM I think) and you did in fact come back and accept the error.
Talking about having a grown up discussion Kind of backs up the talking down to people that I mentioned.

As for not reading evidence, I said that I don’t read some links.
I didn’t say I don’t read all of them so please be accurate when you are claiming what I have said.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yes. I've got a couple of other facts wrong recently and I've apologised and corrected them when it's been pointed out. I've also corrected things where I have realised I've posted in error. That's what grown ups do.

[tyke1962]

Bang on Tyke.

A Tory cabinet minister a few years ago summed it up (I'll try and dig out who it was).

He said that under Thatcher they had a reputation for being competent callous bas**rds. But the latest generation were starting to look like incompetent callous bas**rds.

Just close your eyes and try to imagine Thatcher bragging about shaking hands in a CV-19 hospital, hours after being told by advisers that physical contact was a sure fire way of spreading the virus.

Just close your eyes and imagine Thatcher being told that we faced a threat which was going to kill 500,000 people in 3-4 months if we didn't control it, then not attending a meeting on the subject for 5 weeks while she went of on holiday to unlock her car crash of a private life.

I remember one of her closet allies Carrington resigned within 24 hours of Argentina invading the Falkland Islands because it happened on his watch as Foreign Secretary .

That was the standard code back then .

Like say I've very little time for the women on a number of levels but I will acknowledge her strengths in relation to national crisis .

In my opinion much of the downfall in Tory standards can be traced to their donors and media lick spittles with many banging the economic drum and the health and safety of the little people doesn't really come in to it .

The latest scandal and example getting played out right now just shows how much the donors wield the real clout .

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/revealed-the-elite-dining-club-behind-130m-donations-to-the-tories/

[drfchound]

Yes. I've got a couple of other facts wrong recently and I've apologised and corrected them when it's been pointed out. I've also corrected things where I have realised I've posted in error. That's what grown ups do.

You just can’t help yourself.

[bpoolrover]

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/29/sage-minutes-reveal-how-uk-advisers-reacted-to-crisis

Link not working for me BP. Sorry I will try sort it

[bpoolrover]

Advisors advise - ministers decide.

yes I get that mate and yes the goverment have made big mistakes and have to take the blame but I stand by my point if the scientists who are meant to be the best in the country are not telling you to lock down it’s highly unlikely that you would

[SydneyRover]

Have you locked down bp?

[bpoolrover]

What mean Sydney

[SydneyRover]

I'm not mean no.

[bpoolrover]

Ok your just being a dick again

[wilts rover]

Advisors advise - ministers decide.

yes I get that mate and yes the goverment have made big mistakes and have to take the blame but I stand by my point if the scientists who are meant to be the best in the country are not telling you to lock down it’s highly unlikely that you would

No its the scientists job to say what would happen if the government do/don't lockdown.

Its the government's job to decide what to do. Cummings attended those Sage meetings - what science was he an expert in?

[bpoolrover]

But the scientists didn’t seem to think it was going to be as bad as was going by the minutes at that time, and Cummings is only a advisor he does not make decisions Or is it different for him?

[BillyStubbsTears]

But the scientists didn’t seem to think it was going to be as bad as was going by the minutes at that time, and Cummings is only a advisor he does not make decisions Or is it different for him?

I'm afraid that's wrong Bpool. Totally wrong.

SAGE was telling the Govt from early February at least that, left unmitigated, CV-19 would kill 500,000 people by the summer. That's on record and it's not up for debate.

[wilts rover]

But the scientists didn’t seem to think it was going to be as bad as was going by the minutes at that time, and Cummings is only a advisor he does not make decisions Or is it different for him?

You tell me. SAGE are advisors - its literally in their name - and you say they should be making decisions. Now you say advisors don't make decisions?

[wilts rover]

Coronavirus cases in schools treble in three weeks.

15 first week back, 22 second week, 44 last week. Something going on there as it is supposed to be declining in the community

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/895356/Weekly_COVID19_Surveillance_Report_w26.pdf

[BillyStubbsTears]

Something of a more general worry Wilts. The daily number of deaths has stopped falling for the past week or so. Previously it was coming down at about 3% a day, which is not fantastic, but better than nothing. This last week, it hasn't dropped at all.

That is an ominous trend. Let's hope it's just a blip.

[bpoolrover]

But the scientists didn’t seem to think it was going to be as bad as was going by the minutes at that time, and Cummings is only a advisor he does not make decisions Or is it different for him?

You tell me. SAGE are advisors - its literally in their name - and you say they should be making decisions. Now you say advisors don't make decisions? I’m not saying they should be making decisions but if there advice was that they didn’t expect the need to shut down at that time then you would follow that advice no?

[bpoolrover]

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/29/sage-minutes-reveal-how-uk-advisers-reacted-to-coronavirus-crisis

[bpoolrover]

Going off that the earliest they could of locked down was when the advice changed at the 16th March

[SydneyRover]

Ok your just being a dick again

Sorry bp I just don't wish to fully engage you with your constant but why but why but why? 

[BillyStubbsTears]

Going off that the earliest they could of locked down was when the advice changed at the 16th March

And if they had done BPool, the death toll would have been 60-80% lower and we'd be much further out of lockdown.

When an epidemic is doubling every 3-4 days (and WE in here knew it was by mid-March) it was criminal (literally) to delay lockdown as long as we did. It was tantamount to mass murder.

[bpoolrover]

Ok your just being a dick again

Sorry bp I just don't wish to fully engage you with your constant but why but why but why? 

just don’t reply then as I feel the same I can’t be bothered with it so why don’t we agree not to reply to each other’s posts then we’re both happy

[bpoolrover]

Going off that the earliest they could of locked down was when the advice changed at the 16th March

And if they had done BPool, the death toll would have been 60-80% lower and we'd be much further out of lockdown.

When an epidemic is doubling every 3-4 days (and WE in here knew it was by mid-March) it was criminal (literally) to delay lockdown as long as we did. It was tantamount to mass murder.

the Guardian has it as many as 20k lives saved if a week earlier which is still a huge amount, but going off them minutes they didn’t advise them to lock down a week earlier which is worrying do you not think?

[bpoolrover]

https://apple.news/A6HrsJEVLSs2lMTGJMgBw-Q This guy even thou broke lockdown seems to talk sense

[SydneyRover]

Ok your just being a dick again

Sorry bp I just don't wish to fully engage you with your constant but why but why but why? 

just don’t reply then as I feel the same I can’t be bothered with it so why don’t we agree not to reply to each other’s posts then we’re both happy

As you have already outed yourself as a troll I am circumspect as to what the intention is for a lot of your posts. 

[Donnywolf]

Advisors advise - ministers decide.

yes I get that mate and yes the goverment have made big mistakes and have to take the blame but I stand by my point if the scientists who are meant to be the best in the country are not telling you to lock down it’s highly unlikely that you would

No its the scientists job to say what would happen if the government do/don't lockdown.

Its the government's job to decide what to do. Cummings attended those Sage meetings - what science was he an expert in?

Escapology ! (well its an Ology anyway)

[Donnywolf]

https://apple.news/A6HrsJEVLSs2lMTGJMgBw-Q This guy even thou broke lockdown seems to talk sense

Thats the guy I know you will know who DOES talk sense but after breaking the rules was immediately thrown overboard - in fact Hancock wanted (wished) the Police would get on his case

Fast forward to Cummings there was Hancock falling in behind him - defending him to the hilt

I try to be fair and rational but in those circumstances I would have though what Cummings did (based on what we have been told) was far far worse than what the Prof did - a one on one probably literally

However as you point out the Prof does come up with some good stuff and I would not be surprised in the slightest if the Govt said to him - you have to go for appearances but yet kept him close even now