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Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 860363 times)

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ravenrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #510 on March 14, 2020, 07:44:43 pm by ravenrover »
Raven.

I'm not convinced to be honest. It looks too good to be true.
Thank you



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Sandy Lane

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #511 on March 14, 2020, 07:48:32 pm by Sandy Lane »
Well at least for a change of scene, here is an update from New York. 

Mass closings have started here in upstate New York.  Seemed like this week is when it all just took off.  A town outside New York City is on lockdown (New Rochelle) and the National Guard is giving out food and meds to people in this area in hopes of containing it.  But I think containment is pretty much out the window now.

We are about 100 miles north of there but many schools are closing for a week or two and it was agreed that those schools won’t lose government aid.  A lot of them are teaching remotely, but it’s a question of whether schools in the poorer districts should remain open to help those kids who may need school breakfasts and lunches.  Plus they don’t have school provided computers for remote learning.

Supermarkets are surreal with empty shelves - yes toilet paper is gone but also chicken.  I guess we can’t get enough of our chlorinated chicken!  Lol

Trump has finally allowed the experts to speak though he can’t help himself and still downplays the severity of our outbreak.  We are finally setting up drive though test centers with testing kits which actually work.  Only two months too late.  The growth weekly is exploding now. They are saying within a week or 10 days we may be as bad as Italy is.

I am reading article after article that this is pretty much the end of Trump’s presidency as it’s clear his delay is costing us many many lives.  Once history is written we will see he didn’t need to kill someone on 5th Ave, because he will be indirectly responsible for many other deaths due to his inaction. 

Also (sort of) amusing are the people who for so long poo poo’d this as a hoax.  They now hopefully will realize where the ‘deep state’ really is.

Hope you are all well there, have food in the pantry and medication available.  Many shortages here, but it’s certainly worth the inconvenience if people are able to come through this alive and kicking.

tyke1962

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #512 on March 14, 2020, 07:50:51 pm by tyke1962 »
If the government want to do something that will have a major impact on people's working lives especially those just about surviving which is significant then I suggest they raise the statutory sick pay entitlement to the level of the minimum wage .

This should be implemented straight away and remain as long as the virus remains an official pandemic .

Over to you Boris .

I think you have just highlighted here why there will not be a coalition government - the Labour Party, TUC & unions will be asking for measures to help the public and their members (especially NHS & care staff) whilst Johnson has made clear with the budget what his policy is. And it ain't sourcing extra ICU beds, ventilators, PPE equipment for GP's & care staff or a sick pay incentive for the gig economy workers.

I believe the Australian government have given a lump sum incentive to every Australian worker (is this correct Sydney)?

The one nation Tory and levelling up narrative clearly has an early test of it's substance then Wilts .

Obviously my gut instinct tells me how this plays out but despite my anti EU stance I didn't vote Tory and I never will .

Although I know many people who did and aren't exactly rolling in money , many of whom who I work with in the area between Barnsley and Huddersfield and we were told last week that statutory sick pay is all we will receive should we fall victim to the virus , self isolate as a precaution or the company shuts it doors for a number of weeks .

Some interesting conversations ahead potentially for Johnson's new found friends to think about .

adamtherover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #513 on March 14, 2020, 07:54:17 pm by adamtherover »
Raven.

I'm not convinced to be honest. It looks too good to be true.
yet you accuse others of fighting the facts? 🤔🤔

drfcdrfc

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #514 on March 14, 2020, 08:03:39 pm by drfcdrfc »
To be fair to Tyke BST that's how it came across, intentional or not

I didn't see that, in any way, shape or form. To be fair, BST has been clear that this isn't about politics. Right now, it's far bigger. We all know this, surely?

drfchound

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #515 on March 14, 2020, 08:11:45 pm by drfchound »
Does anyone on this forum actually know anyone who has caught this virus.

tyke1962

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #516 on March 14, 2020, 08:13:24 pm by tyke1962 »
Billly

If you have put me on Block , whatever that means on this board and I say this as you haven't acknowledge my apology to your good self .

Bit of a poor do in my opinion Billy , I thought the restriction on debate in this day and age was a Johnson government strategy .

Which makes you ..........

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #517 on March 14, 2020, 08:19:04 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Does anyone on this forum actually know anyone who has caught this virus.

Yep. Mother of one of my eldest classmates.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #518 on March 14, 2020, 08:20:51 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Tyke

I've had it up to my back teeth having the things I say twisted or ignored by you. There's no dialogue. Speak with you is like shovelling ideas into a black hole, and having your same argument come back every time. So I'm just going to step out now. Have fun.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #519 on March 14, 2020, 08:24:55 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Raven.

I'm not convinced to be honest. It looks too good to be true.
yet you accuse others of fighting the facts? 🤔🤔

Adam.
I'm not saying they are wrong. I'm saying that it stretches credibility to drop new infections from 4 figures to single digits in a month. And of course, being the society it is, it is very difficult to hear any data that's not Govt approved.

South Korea had a similar scale of outbreak, mainly confined to one part of one city. They have had THE most aggressive lockdown of any democracy (and it is not a democracy like our western countries). And they are still having hundreds of cases per day.

Which makes me a little sceptical of the numbers from China.

Which numbers are YOU sceptical of? And why?

adamtherover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #520 on March 14, 2020, 08:32:52 pm by adamtherover »
It's not that I'm sceptical of any numbers, it's more the fact that worse case scenarios are being quoted!!!  For example  50% of the worlds population will be infected!! And so many million will die!!  Complete doomsday scenario!!  When in most probable outcomes. The worlds governments will lock down countries long before that as we have seen in china and in italy, hence incredibly low figures, even in the hot spots!!!
Left unchecked, i have no doubt it would be massive, but we have to trust the governement arent idiots..   we shall see..

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #521 on March 14, 2020, 08:44:31 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Adam

Why do you think those are gross exaggerations?

In 1919, the world population was less than 1/4 of what it is now. No one knows how many people the Spanish Flu killed, but the lowest estimate is 17 million.

Why should that not happen again?

And since the infection and mortality rates I've been putting up here are broadly what the experts are predicting, why do you not accept them?

tyke1962

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #522 on March 14, 2020, 08:44:53 pm by tyke1962 »
Tyke

I've had it up to my back teeth having the things I say twisted or ignored by you. There's no dialogue. Speak with you is like shovelling ideas into a black hole, and having your same argument come back every time. So I'm just going to step out now. Have fun.

Billy I've never twisted one thing in the exchange's we've had and tried to stick to the facts as far as I know them .

There's is no fun to be had on Labour people with the working class at the top of their debate and a million mile apart on how that's best achieved .

It's actually a tragedy .

There's very little lad points for me personally in our exchanges just a sincere sense of sadness .

You see the future of the working class one way and I see it another , that's all that separates us because the reality is we want the same result .

Let's not be divided and conquered because that's the one trick Tory narrative both you and I are fully aware of .

Let's debate but agree to disagree .

Sounds like a plan don't you agree ?


wilts rover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #523 on March 14, 2020, 08:55:02 pm by wilts rover »
Adam

Your government are following a strategy of 'herd immunity'. In order for that strategy to be effective at least 60% of the population need to be infected. With a projected death rate of 1%. They have yet to provided the data that this is based on to show how effective it will be.

Every other country with the virus (and several without) are following a different strategy as recommended by the WHO. They are attempting to eradicate the virus completely.

Your government do not believe that strategy will work. They are planning on a 60% infection rate. Sorry but that is what they are planning/doing/not doing.

albie

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #524 on March 14, 2020, 09:04:16 pm by albie »
Cummings is floating some ideas via pet poodle Peston on the next steps;
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-14/elderly-to-be-quarantined-for-four-months-in-wartime-style-mobilisation-to-combat-coronavirus/

If the pushback is too strong, then it is just journo speculation. Plausible deniability its called.

SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #525 on March 14, 2020, 09:05:21 pm by SydneyRover »
A remarkable story , a million miles away from the selfish panic buyer's of today .
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35064071

It's a remarkable story Tyke, we visited the graveyard the last time we were in the UK.

tyke1962

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #526 on March 14, 2020, 09:14:57 pm by tyke1962 »
Billy

If you view my opinions as twisting the facts then fair enough , you are entitled to your opinion .

Possibly and I say this in a fashion that it's intended to be I'm no different from  highly educated court room lawyers who defend their clients and the jury decide on their tactics , many times a person's life depends on it .

I'm from a union background where members expected to be represented and sometimes it was indefensible but I represented them none the less and trust me they kept their jobs when sometimes they possibly shouldn't have done .

It's what I did and I won't apologise for it given a man's life is sometimes determined on such things elsewhere .

That said whilst we disagree on the EU I still fundamentally believe we are better out of it as working class people .

I ain't ever going to take one step towards you on that matter , not now and not ever .






SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #527 on March 14, 2020, 09:18:13 pm by SydneyRover »
Wilks/Tyke in reply the Australian government has promised $750 to every person receiving welfare. I was hoping that they would give them more but it was a good move.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #528 on March 14, 2020, 09:26:31 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Tyke.

Your final paragraph is precisely the reason it is utterly pointless discussing with you.

If you decide that no argument, no fact, no new development would ever change your mind, then discussing anything is pointless.

Good luck.

wilts rover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #529 on March 14, 2020, 09:32:52 pm by wilts rover »

wilts rover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #530 on March 14, 2020, 09:36:17 pm by wilts rover »
Wilks/Tyke in reply the Australian government has promised $750 to every person receiving welfare. I was hoping that they would give them more but it was a good move.

Thanks Sydney, I was sure I had read that somewhere.

tyke1962

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #531 on March 14, 2020, 09:39:03 pm by tyke1962 »
A remarkable story , a million miles away from the selfish panic buyer's of today .
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35064071

It's a remarkable story Tyke, we visited the graveyard the last time we were in the UK.

Those people gave the ultimate sacrifice , you simply can't do anymore than sacrifice your own life to save others .

Times are different I accept that but there wasn't a so much as a single toilet roll available when I went in Tesco's yesterday evening , it's a superstore ffs  !!! .

Society today has me question in so many things , I put Thatcher at the top of it and her mandate and legacy .

You tell me this country as a whole is a  a better place because of her and I'll debate with anyone until I take my last breath that it isn't and never will be .

 

Nudga

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #532 on March 14, 2020, 09:42:53 pm by Nudga »
Slightly off topic but related. It occurred to me seeing the news that Jet2 turned some of their flights to Spain around, very soon we are going to see an almost complete grounding of the airline industry.

That should give us some interesting data in relation to the concept of global dimming and perhaps reveal if the climate crisis is actually more advanced than we realise.

At least those pesky chem trails will lift the social fog 😉

albie

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #533 on March 14, 2020, 09:45:00 pm by albie »
Still do not understand why the UK thinks we are up to 4 weeks behind Italy;
https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1238822732302815232/photo/1

This graph shows around a 12 day lag.
This is not a small difference....it is massive when you factor in the expected rate of exponential growth.

Getting this wrong would mean too little, way too late.
It also risks compromising measures introduced in other places. Ireland has a different regime in place across the NI border.

tyke1962

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #534 on March 14, 2020, 09:45:08 pm by tyke1962 »
Tyke.

Your final paragraph is precisely the reason it is utterly pointless discussing with you.

If you decide that no argument, no fact, no new development would ever change your mind, then discussing anything is pointless.

Good luck.

Billy its actually the other way around , your pro EU soundbites were rejected by the referendum and the last GE .


adamtherover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #535 on March 14, 2020, 09:46:01 pm by adamtherover »
Adam

Your government are following a strategy of 'herd immunity'. In order for that strategy to be effective at least 60% of the population need to be infected. With a projected death rate of 1%. They have yet to provided the data that this is based on to show how effective it will be.

Every other country with the virus (and several without) are following a different strategy as recommended by the WHO. They are attempting to eradicate the virus completely.

Your government do not believe that strategy will work. They are planning on a 60% infection rate. Sorry but that is what they are planning/doing/not doing.

they are not MY government mate, I certainly didnt vote for the c*nts!!!!!!

adamtherover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #536 on March 14, 2020, 09:56:16 pm by adamtherover »
And that was the point raised in my last post, are the governement idiots?, is Bojo listening to his health advisors?  Etc..  the individual can only do so much, we are the whim of the men at the top!!!
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 10:25:48 pm by adamtherover »

drfchound

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #537 on March 14, 2020, 09:57:58 pm by drfchound »
Adam

Your government are following a strategy of 'herd immunity'. In order for that strategy to be effective at least 60% of the population need to be infected. With a projected death rate of 1%. They have yet to provided the data that this is based on to show how effective it will be.

Every other country with the virus (and several without) are following a different strategy as recommended by the WHO. They are attempting to eradicate the virus completely.

Your government do not believe that strategy will work. They are planning on a 60% infection rate. Sorry but that is what they are planning/doing/not doing.

they are not MY government mate, I certainly didnt vote for the c*nts!!!!!!







They are your government Adam.
The other lot didn’t get enough votes to change that.

I know how you feel though as I didn’t vote to leave the EU.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #538 on March 14, 2020, 10:04:42 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Still do not understand why the UK thinks we are up to 4 weeks behind Italy;
https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1238822732302815232/photo/1

This graph shows around a 12 day lag.
This is not a small difference....it is massive when you factor in the expected rate of exponential growth.

Getting this wrong would mean too little, way too late.
It also risks compromising measures introduced in other places. Ireland has a different regime in place across the NI border.

Albie.

It's not about the reported cases and the growth rates in those. Because that depends on how good your testing system is. Just because the trends in REPORTED cases have a twelve day lag doesn't mean the lag in ACTUAL cases is the same.

They are basing the 4 week lag on epidemiology modelling.

Put simply (and it is more complex) the fact that Italy has over 1000 deaths and we have about 20 allows them to get a more accurate handle on likely actual numbers of cases and growth rates.

The epidemiologidts are looking at hard, accurate data (like deaths) and comparing the trend to those predicted by well validated epidemic models. From that, they are estimating that it will take 4 weeks for us to get from our actual current number of cases (about 10,000) to the number of real cases that Italy currently has (probably about 150,000)

scawsby steve

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #539 on March 14, 2020, 10:12:59 pm by scawsby steve »
Adam

Why do you think those are gross exaggerations?

In 1919, the world population was less than 1/4 of what it is now. No one knows how many people the Spanish Flu killed, but the lowest estimate is 17 million.

Why should that not happen again?

And since the infection and mortality rates I've been putting up here are broadly what the experts are predicting, why do you not accept them?

Why don't you accept the latest figures from China?

 

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