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Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 861129 times)

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drfchound

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #840 on March 20, 2020, 08:54:47 pm by drfchound »
Teenage daughter rescued from Africa today. So grateful.

Tested as she left Rwanda (and at various travel points along the way).

Not tested as she arrived at Gatwick.

Unbelievable.







Just curious BigH, but was she not tested at Gatwick because she had been tested negative elsewhere and that info had been passed on.



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BigH

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #841 on March 20, 2020, 09:00:17 pm by BigH »
Hound, sorry should have explained. Simple temperature testing.

Africa, for all its faults, has some idea and experience on how to try and manage these kind of situations.

We, on the other hand, seem to be caught like rabbits in the headlights.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #842 on March 20, 2020, 10:02:00 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
BST,

The link I gave also links through to the deaths data on the FT site.
If you follow through you see both the death rate comparator and the case trajectory.

Here is the graphic from Twitter;
https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1241091873621643266/photo/1

Big disparity in Germany between the death figures and the known infections AT THE MOMENT.
It will be interesting how this plays out. Germany has been testing like crazy, and is well provisioned with health care capacity compared to the UK.

New release of info from the UK Government today;
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/615391/coronavirus-uk-social-distancing-science-isolation-covid/

Data absent on the testing regime!

Albie.
Yes I've seen several graphs where they have shifted the country data on the time axis to the point where they all start from a common date at a very low number of deaths.

I explained last night why that approach is badly flawed if you use it to compare trends when the deaths are in the hundreds and thousands.

Look at the graph that I posted earlier. It is clear that we, France, Spain and Italy have all been on broadly the same trend. And that implementing hard lockdown dies appear to bend the trend significantly downwards, on a log scale, which is a start.


Germany, clearly is a massive outlier on deaths/confirmed cases. I posted someone's thoughts on that earlier in the week. They said data showed that the early infections in Germany were overwhelmingly in the young. But that, when it hit the older population, the deaths would mount.

That has happened this week. Their deaths have started and are broadly following the same trend as the rest of Europe.

We truly are all in it together. All following the same track, just separated by a few days. We need to be sharing best ideas and learning from each other, fast.

tyke1962

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #843 on March 20, 2020, 11:50:15 pm by tyke1962 »
Whilst I welcome the chancellors measures rolled out today and I am fully aware that these measures are not costed and they are coming from money the government simply doesn't have .

They have little choice and it had to be done , there's nobody going to argue that they aren't acting in the best interests of everyone .

My concern is that when this is all over whenever that maybe who picks up the tab for these measures ? .

If it's everyone then that's totally fine and I mean everyone who has the ability to pay .

That's generally not how things have worked out under previous Tory governments .

The don't look at me conversations had better take place this time amongst those who have that ability to pay .

If the Tory Government have suddenly discovered crisis Socialism then you'd better follow that right through and not leave the less well off to the switch to free market capitalism to pay the bill .


BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #844 on March 21, 2020, 12:01:26 am by BillyStubbsTears »
They are also going to need to run a command economy for the next 2 years at least. Tell industries what to make, where to deliver it to.

Churchill was a rabid anti-socialist, but it's amazing how even someone as wedded to free markets as him was happy to ditch them when the chips were down.

My gut feeling is that there will not be a reversion back to the unfettered free markets after this. They were misfiring badly already. And there is no intellectual drive from the Right as to how to invigorate them.

The creative new ideas are all coming from the Left. Just like they were in WWII, which pressaged 35 years of state intervention in the economy which was unheard of then, and would be astonish to anyone now under 50 years old. It just needs politicians on the Left  who can do the inconvenient thing of winning elections to implement those ideas.

tyke1962

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #845 on March 21, 2020, 12:59:44 am by tyke1962 »
They are also going to need to run a command economy for the next 2 years at least. Tell industries what to make, where to deliver it to.

Churchill was a rabid anti-socialist, but it's amazing how even someone as wedded to free markets as him was happy to ditch them when the chips were down.

My gut feeling is that there will not be a reversion back to the unfettered free markets after this. They were misfiring badly already. And there is no intellectual drive from the Right as to how to invigorate them.

The creative new ideas are all coming from the Left. Just like they were in WWII, which pressaged 35 years of state intervention in the economy which was unheard of then, and would be astonish to anyone now under 50 years old. It just needs politicians on the Left  who can do the inconvenient thing of winning elections to implement those ideas.

Proper game changer is this for a Tory government , unprecedented apart from WW2 which even then was a coalition .

The fact is there's nothing left to cut back on given their own policies of the last 10 years , they completely own the decade .

The only reason the Tory Party exists at all is to protect wealth at least that's my understanding and I'm an avid reader of political history 

This poses the current Tory government an unprecedented conundrum , there's nothing to extract at the lower end of society because they've signed that off themselves for the last 10 years .

Now they are quite rightly having to borrow money even Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling would have shyte themselves at with only the people who they represent historically having the means to pay it back .

You could say falling on their own sword .

Their donors and voters historically rely on them keeping their wealth plus further wealth .

It's a remarkable chain of events .

Extremely sad and tragic that this virus had to come about and I wish whole heartedly it wasn't this way .




SydneyRover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #846 on March 21, 2020, 01:42:16 am by SydneyRover »
This gives the tories a convenient out, Windrush, the Russian report and anything else will be put out with the garbage as Covid 19 takes away attention.

The budget has already been put off till October in Aus because it would be 'silly' to deal with the fact that economy has tanked and only the adults are allowed to see the numbers.

There will be something similar on the UK I would imagine with the help of a compliant media ready to hail a triumphant johnson.

River Don

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #847 on March 21, 2020, 08:10:21 am by River Don »
Here's a thought.

With the government supporting wages whilst work and productivity is likely to be lower. Effectively printing money, is there a risk of inflation?

Particularly in food.

wilts rover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #848 on March 21, 2020, 08:17:34 am by wilts rover »
Good point RD - I was just about to post this link:

'Just as there are no atheists on a sinking ship, there are no free-marketers in a pandemic'

https://twitter.com/Freedland/status/1241077451956146176

River Don

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #849 on March 21, 2020, 09:03:44 am by River Don »
I'm not altogether sure about the question of inflation.

We also see the world is awash in crude oil at the moment and the price of a barrel has been collapsing. This should produce a deflationary effect.

It's like trying to predict the weather. Next year.

ravenrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #850 on March 21, 2020, 09:13:51 am by ravenrover »
Hound, sorry should have explained. Simple temperature testing.

Africa, for all its faults, has some idea and experience on how to try and manage these kind of situations.

We, on the other hand, seem to be caught like rabbits in the headlights.
I assume she will be going into self isolation

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #851 on March 21, 2020, 09:31:41 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Here's a thought.

With the government supporting wages whilst work and productivity is likely to be lower. Effectively printing money, is there a risk of inflation?

Particularly in food.

There is a simple solution to that if it does happen.

Rationing.

Filo

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #852 on March 21, 2020, 09:43:04 am by Filo »
Who would have thought we’d have a Socialist Tory Government?

Axholme Lion

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #853 on March 21, 2020, 10:09:47 am by Axholme Lion »
Here's a thought.

With the government supporting wages whilst work and productivity is likely to be lower. Effectively printing money, is there a risk of inflation?

Particularly in food.

There is a simple solution to that if it does happen.

Rationing.

Food should be rationed as vast swathes of the general public have proved they cannot act like rational adults by raping the supermarkets with no thought for anyone other than themselves. FFS just buy what you need and everyone will get a fair share. Are these people complete morons? Panic buying everything in sight because they might run out is a self fulfilling prophecy.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #854 on March 21, 2020, 10:34:15 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Here's a thought.

With the government supporting wages whilst work and productivity is likely to be lower. Effectively printing money, is there a risk of inflation?

Particularly in food.

There is a simple solution to that if it does happen.

Rationing.

I heard Kenneth Rogoff interviewed this morning.

He's the Harvard economist whose work was quoted by many if the politicians who wanted to justify Austerity 10 years ago. He's made a career out of saying "don't let debt get too high".

He said in this interview (about the US economy) "I would have no concerns now with Govt debt going up a trillion dollars...heck FIVE trillion dollars in the blink of an eye. And if we get inflation after this, frankly, so what?"

It's like hearing Ian Paisley saying mass in the Vatican.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #855 on March 21, 2020, 10:39:07 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Next step in "things you never thought you'd see a Tory Govt do".

Airlines to be effectively nationalised next week.


As someone has said on Twitter, just like everyone finds God on a sinking ship, we are all socialists in an emergency.

drfchound

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #856 on March 21, 2020, 10:44:50 am by drfchound »
Here's a thought.

With the government supporting wages whilst work and productivity is likely to be lower. Effectively printing money, is there a risk of inflation?

Particularly in food.

There is a simple solution to that if it does happen.

Rationing.

Food should be rationed as vast swathes of the general public have proved they cannot act like rational adults by raping the supermarkets with no thought for anyone other than themselves. FFS just buy what you need and everyone will get a fair share. Are these people complete morons? Panic buying everything in sight because they might run out is a self fulfilling prophecy.







Just been to the post office.
A young mother in there was telling the post office lady that her mother has over 200 toilet rolls stashed away.

Filo

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #857 on March 21, 2020, 10:52:37 am by Filo »
Toilet rolls are worth more an ounce than gold these days

Axholme Lion

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #858 on March 21, 2020, 11:15:07 am by Axholme Lion »
Here's a thought.

With the government supporting wages whilst work and productivity is likely to be lower. Effectively printing money, is there a risk of inflation?

Particularly in food.

There is a simple solution to that if it does happen.

Rationing.

Food should be rationed as vast swathes of the general public have proved they cannot act like rational adults by raping the supermarkets with no thought for anyone other than themselves. FFS just buy what you need and everyone will get a fair share. Are these people complete morons? Panic buying everything in sight because they might run out is a self fulfilling prophecy.







Just been to the post office.
A young mother in there was telling the post office lady that her mother has over 200 toilet rolls stashed away.

Well I hope she gets the shits and uses them all up. Hoarding essentials should be a criminal offence. People like that are creating a problem that otherwise would not exist and ruining the lives of others who are either old, sick or too busy going to work to get to the shops at 6am.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #859 on March 21, 2020, 11:19:27 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Right. Hand up.

I'm feeling unreasonably guilty on this one.

We always buy bulk packs at CostCo every few months. It's miles cheaper. I bought one a few weeks ago before the panic buying starts. So we've got about 80 rolls under the stairs.

I'm sure the people on here who think I'm full of shit will be relieved that I'm well covered in that department.

roversdude

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #860 on March 21, 2020, 11:23:29 am by roversdude »
Did anyone notice the day that they gave over the first hour in supermarkets to the oldies - one old lady walking out with 2x24 packs of toilet rolls justifying it by she has neighbours, in the background an old guy with a trolley full of them.
We need to make sure our NHS staff are looked after and can get provisions

Sprotyrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #861 on March 21, 2020, 11:40:39 am by Sprotyrover »
I see thiis morning that the Mayor of one of those badly infected towns is saying the death rate is probably 4 x higher than reported as he fears a lot of old folks have merely died in their homes and have yet to be found.

Axholme Lion

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #862 on March 21, 2020, 11:41:08 am by Axholme Lion »
Right. Hand up.

I'm feeling unreasonably guilty on this one.

We always buy bulk packs at CostCo every few months. It's miles cheaper. I bought one a few weeks ago before the panic buying starts. So we've got about 80 rolls under the stairs.

I'm sure the people on here who think I'm full of shit will be relieved that I'm well covered in that department.

You shouldn't feel guilty for continuing with your normal buying habits. It's the people who have suddenly gone mad that are at fault.

BigH

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #863 on March 21, 2020, 11:45:16 am by BigH »
Just wondering when we can expect to see supermarkets replanning their aisles.

Part of the current problem is that they're planned for JIT deliveries and 'little and often' buying behaviour. Also, no need for 2000+ stock items when it's bread and milk that people want.

So, hopefully, we'll soon see 3-4 aisles of staples and a whole chiller aisle of milk as the porcini mushrooms, sun-dried tomatoes and poncey continental cheeses get binned off.

BigH

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #864 on March 21, 2020, 11:54:47 am by BigH »
Hound, sorry should have explained. Simple temperature testing.

Africa, for all its faults, has some idea and experience on how to try and manage these kind of situations.

We, on the other hand, seem to be caught like rabbits in the headlights.
I assume she will be going into self isolation
Staying, confined to home for at least 14 days (without visitors) as a precaution; yes.

However, not currently displaying any symptoms so not self-isolating.

IDM

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #865 on March 21, 2020, 12:01:07 pm by IDM »
Right. Hand up.

I'm feeling unreasonably guilty on this one.

We always buy bulk packs at CostCo every few months. It's miles cheaper. I bought one a few weeks ago before the panic buying starts. So we've got about 80 rolls under the stairs.

I'm sure the people on here who think I'm full of shit will be relieved that I'm well covered in that department.

It’s probably just as cheap these days to buy a shed load of old shirts from eBay if your rival football club, at least you can wash them and re use them.!

PS - I am joking.

However, in all seriousness, it wouldn’t be impossible to cut up an old sheet for bog paper, and wash and re use, like we used to do with terry nappies until a generation or so ago..

River Don

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #866 on March 21, 2020, 12:05:19 pm by River Don »
Next step in "things you never thought you'd see a Tory Govt do".

Airlines to be effectively nationalised next week.


As someone has said on Twitter, just like everyone finds God on a sinking ship, we are all socialists in an emergency.

The Italians are renationalising Alitalia, as they now see it as a vital national asset. They have come to the realisation that there are circumstances when they may need to get a lot of nationals home at short notice.

River Don

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #867 on March 21, 2020, 12:28:43 pm by River Don »
Footage of Youths Looting and fighting at London supermarkets.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/watch-youths-looting-fighting-supermarkets-london-paris

It's a Zero hedge article, so you know but the footage looks real.

ravenrover

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #868 on March 21, 2020, 12:58:46 pm by ravenrover »
Hound, sorry should have explained. Simple temperature testing.

Africa, for all its faults, has some idea and experience on how to try and manage these kind of situations.

We, on the other hand, seem to be caught like rabbits in the headlights.
I assume she will be going into self isolation
Staying, confined to home for at least 14 days (without visitors) as a precaution; yes.

However, not currently displaying any symptoms so not self-isolating.
so in that scenario are you and everyone else in your household staying in for 14 days?

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #869 on March 21, 2020, 01:22:08 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Footage of Youths Looting and fighting at London supermarkets.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/watch-youths-looting-fighting-supermarkets-london-paris

It's a Zero hedge article, so you know but the footage looks real.

RD.
Have a look at who wrote that piece and ask if you really want to be circulating articles by a Kitson like Paul Joseph Watson.

 

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